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Post Info TOPIC: The Amazing Mr. Mroz


Legend

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The Amazing Mr. Mroz
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Lest anyone should think that I am conducting a vendetta against Mr. Albert Mroz and his book American Military Vehicles of World War One, I should just like to confirm that that is absolutely the case.

Having now had the opportunity to read this fiasco in its entirety, I enclose a selection of verbatim quotes from Chapter VI (with the exception of the first one, which is the opening sentence of his Introduction). These are the one-liners that is is easiest to pick out. Other are such a lengthy jumble of facts that to quote them would probably use up the Forum's bandwidth. The decision is yours.

"In 1900 the nations of Europe were at peace, following almost a century of relative quiet."

"Lord Kirchener" (sic)

"David Roberts . . .head of Sons of Grantham"

"By 1914 the Killen-Strait was shown to David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill."

"P.J. Diplock" (sic)

(At Cambrai) "A new approach was also adopted in the use of camouflage painted by artists to help conceal the 'landships'."

"The Germans also invented an anti-tank rifle . . . that could pierce certain sections of many tanks, especially around the engine, which had thinner gauge plate, as opposed to the sides, which had up to 3/4 inch plate."

Photo p269:  "This Renault FT-17 was photographed on American soil." (It's an M1917)

"In his memoir Sir Albert Stern extols the cooperation of the American military only after June of 1917, even though much design work had been shared two years earlier, including the creation of Little Willie and the wholehearted involvement of Holt Caterpillar, later personally acknowledged by General Ernest Swinton."

"A joint venture was proposed that include (sic) 1,500 tanks in cooperation with the U.S. These included the Mark IV and Liberty type."

"Because the U.S. Tank Corps Depot in France was already largely manned by Chinese labourers in 1917, it was planned that the tank factory would also use Chinese workers."

"General Swinton visited Benjamin Holt in Stockton, California to salute him for his contribution to the war effort and to inspect the Holt one-man tank prototype."

(On the U.S. M1917 tank): "the one exterior recognizable feature was an additional vision slot for the driver."

"Another view of the . . . M1917 shows the removable tail; it was otherwise identical to the FT-17."

"General Swinton visited Benjamin Holt . . . to inspect the Holt one-man tank prototype. Because the war ended, the tank was never manufactured."

"Once the German army was stopped on the  eastern front by March of 1918, the Germans returned to the west and overran the British 5th Army again at the Somme. Pushing to the Marne, newly arrived American soldiers stopped the German troops at Chateau-Thierry. Here, in one of the most dramatic examples of motorized firepower, 354 tanks of various types rolled over barbed wire, machine guns, trenches, and obstacles, breaking the German line and the troops' morale and resulting in a requisition for the Armistice on October 4."

(The French 75's) "projectile hit a target as far away as 10,000 feet."

"This vehicle was called the Steam Wheel Tank, the 3-wheeled Steam Tank, or Holt 150-Ton Field Monitor, the last name referring to some imaginary number since the whole contraption weighed some 17 tons. There was also the possibility that that this was the next number to be used after the holt Model 120, or a number to confuse enemy spies, according to a few writers, or simply a typographical error."

(After Cambrai) "the Germans counterattacked under General Erich Ludendorff "

"All versions of (the M1917) ended up in many different countries all the way up into World War II."

"Most tanks used in World War I were of European manufacture."

"The French Schneider Company bought two 45hp Baby Holts (Holt 75) in April 1915 as a basis for their versions, which had one 75mm gun and two Hotchkiss machine guns. It was first tested at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland."

"Saint-Chamond 155 Grande portee filoux, or Great Range Filoux. The abbreviation GPF was commonly used, which also meant Great Power Filoux."

"Shrapnel shells were gradually replaced by explosive shells, especially after the Battle of Loos."

"The name Tank originated from Winston Churchill and General Swinton"

(On Little Willie) "the rear wheels were superseded by braced tail bars for trench crossing and tracks were as tall as the entire tank for better centre of gravity."

(Wilson) "redesigned the Bullock track system to be much more robust so that a gun and rotating turret's weight could be added."

"Mark I tanks were shipped in disguised crates to France"

"Colonel John Fuller, chief of staff of the Tank Corps, was quite sure of the tanks' eventual effectiveness and persuaded General Haig and the British government to plan on supplying 1.000 tanks."

"As a frontline correspondent earlier, Colonel Maurice Swankey (sic) wrote on the Somme Battle later in 1919."

"The U.S. Tank Corps had its inception when then-Captain George Patton transferred, applying to General Pershing on November 10, 1917, in order to start a tank school for the U.S. 1st Army."

"The Royal Army Corps Tank Museum in London . . ."

"The French FT-17 and FT-18 . . . "

"The Ft-18 differed in that it had a round, cast turret instead of a riveted, octagonal one."

Yours for $55.



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Brigadier

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Bonjour James,

This man is a big comic, and I think that your fight is a very good but a lost vendetta !
I don't open Wikipédia topics, it's forbiden by my doctor and not good for my heart !

Bon courage - Michel

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Legend

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Nice pictures. Probably not $55 worth of pictures, but that is the beauty of Public Libraries.



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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.



Legend

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I expect you can pick it up easily in PDF form of the internet (hint)... as PDA ses some of the pics are quite nice but not 55 dollars worth... but worth every cent in laughsbiggrin

 Cheerswink

 



-- Edited by Ironsides on Tuesday 30th of August 2011 05:19:09 PM

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Major

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I have seen professional comedians who are less funny... smile

In defence, the mistake of the FT18 may be my fault, as I have once published drawings of the FT17 with the round turret under the name FT18... whoops... confuse

 



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Colonel

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Not very good really is it. I wonder how he allows himself to write such garbage.

I notice you concentrate on the tanks and miss out the errors on the trucks all together. Or are you planning a whole new chapter?

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Legend

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Great War Truck wrote:

I notice you concentrate on the tanks and miss out the errors on the trucks all together.


A most interesting point. I've only commented on Chapter VI because I like to think I can speak with some small authority on its contents. I don't know enough about U.S. softskins to express an opinion. I think this is a Catch-22 (a real one). If you don't know about something you read a book about it, but because you don't know about it you don't know if what you're reading is correct. One has to put one's faith in the author, but in the case of Mr. Mroz's fantasies about Tanks that faith is, clearly, misplaced. Doubt must therefore be cast on the rest of the material. I have read a small review of the remainder of the book that is less than complimentary. Perhaps GWT could call upon his knowledge to peer review the rest of this utter pile of pants.

BTW, Mr. Mroz's account of the Battle of Chateau-Thierry bears no resemblance to any historical event that I can discover.



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It was once thought that if an infinite number of monkeys were given an infinite number of typewriters they would eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Thanks to the invention of Wikipedia, we now know that this is not the case.



Colonel

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Oh no. I dont have to read the thing again do i?
I agree that the book is awful. He does give the impression that he knows nothing about the subject, but he does know a little about some things which have no bearing or relevance which he does like to write about like "Golden West" trucks which were never used by the military. He does have some interesting photos but not many and there are too many civilian ones and in one case a civilian one which has been photoshopped to remove the civilian name and then described as military.

What did you make of the "body armour" picture on page 289 which actually looks like a matress suspended from the shoulders

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Legend

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Great War Truck wrote:

What did you make of the "body armour" picture on page 289 which actually looks like a matress suspended from the shoulders


 I used to go out with a girl who did that. She was very popular.



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It was once thought that if an infinite number of monkeys were given an infinite number of typewriters they would eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Thanks to the invention of Wikipedia, we now know that this is not the case.



Colonel

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I think i met her.

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Colonel

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Ok. Here is a random photo caption that is just plain stupid. A picture of a WD Cadillac which is described as "known as the Cadillac M. Broad Arrow". Interestingly, the number on the bonnet is "M^44558" with the ^ symbolising the WD crowsfoot which i presume he took as "broad arrow". Daft.

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Colonel

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Ok. Here are some more odd photo captions.
Page 34 a Nash Quad AC chassis with two driving positions (front and back). originally inspired by smugglers designed for narrow paths.
page 44. A Liberty B described as an FWD
Page 49 A Fulton with a military spot light - I dont think so.
Page 56 (and others). Many Peerless trucks described as QM trucks.
Page 59 A Nash Quad described as an FWD
Page 69 A White armoured car is actually a Quad
Page 295 A captured US Locomobile in Austrian army service I dont think so
Page 299 Nash joined FWD and Walter as some of the most important 4X4 allied vehicles of WW1". Walter???????????????

Ok. Thats enough for now. I have lost the will to carry on. If any motorcycle experts want to add their comments please do so.


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