Landships II

Few other things from the same website...



"French halftrack tank of hays -Wamon M1921 during the tests in Finland. To whose superhighways were tried on Finns?"

We've always heard the Chenillette M1921 was tested in Finland - but we've never seen a picture of it before. And true enough, the gun mount on this vehicle is different from any other M1921 I've ever seen. Interesting.



"The German halftrack tankette Of zaurer RR7. was used as the armored car for the artillery observers (Shpil'berger)."

Never seen that before either. Apparently the Saurer RR7 is a fairly well researched vehicle, now that i'm looking into it, but I still had never seen a picture of it before so I thought I'd share.

---Vil.

Thank you very much Hedi!

Could this be another one of Joseph Vollmers designs? If it is, and this tank did lead to the Landsversk L-30, then this would certainly reaffirm the ties between post-WWI Germany and Swedens tank development.

---Vil.

And I can guarantee some more heated swedish postings if you suggest that we cooperated with the bolsheviks!

-- Edited by Peter Kempf at 09:08, 2007-06-10

Hello Tim,

Here is the link to the site I found the images on. The sentences are descriptions of the images they link to. Open an image, then refer to this Babelfish translated list I put together for a vague idea of what you are looking at:

http://militera.lib.ru/research/isaev_av1/ill.html

1. Facsimile of the first page of "considerations..." of 15 May, 1941.

2. German "avtostradnye tanks" Pz.I and Pz.II in the bodies of trucks on the trailers at the parade (Jentz T Panzertruppen).

3. French halftrack tank of hays -Wamon M1921 during the tests in Finland. To whose superhighways were tried on Finns?

4. Swedish halftrack tank Of landsverk-e0.

5. German experimental halftrack tank of 1928 (on the caterpillars). One can see well similarity to the previous model (Shpil'berger).

6. Ia machine, as on the previous photo, but on the wheels (Shpil'berger).

7. The German halftrack tankette Of zaurer RR7. was used as the armored car for the artillery observers (Shpil'berger).

8. Thus they economized the service life of caterpillar and engine. Loading the English tank of the Crusaders to the conveyer Of skammel'. (Tanks in camera).

9. English halftrack tank: the tank of the Crusaders on the truck White (the same source as in the preceding case).

10. Tank To kristi during the tests in THE USSR. The use of road wheels as the wheels was only one of the versions of halftrack constructions, moreover not by the best. You will focus attention on the packed on the regiments caterpillars.

11. Polish halftrack tank 10TP (from the book Of shmeleva on BT).

12. German 105- mm the hull gun 10cm K 18. This instrument Franz gal'der placed in the first place as the combat means with the tanks KV.

13. German 210-mm heavy howitzer Moerser 18. These imposing instruments accompanied the combat groups of German tank divisions, giving to them the possibility to demolish any of ukrpeleniya. (Hogn I German artillery of World War Two)

14. They dispatch after the "lungs and by those become obsolete". The subdivision of German 210-mm mortars on the tug of high-speed halftrack tractors is prepared for the march.

15. Their no one counted. German trucks Of opel' "blits" somewhere on the boundless expanses of Russia. Motor vehicles were not less important component of the tank divisions of Germans, than Pz.III and Pz.IV.

16. Armor BT even projectiles of a comparatively small caliber simply broke. This with the imperfect organizational structure of mechanized corps together caused the large losses of tanks of this type. To snimke..zhpg target=1 hole from the projectile 50- mm of antitank gun PACK -38.

17. Burning Soviet tank BT; Ukraine, 1941.

18. The pictures of catastrophes are always similar to each other. the "stepbrother" Of bT..zhpg target=1 English "Kreyser"..zhpg target=1 be casten to France. 1940.

19. Devastated giant, which did not justify hopes. Exploded French heavy tank 2C (Tankomaster)

20. Repeated the fate of French colossus. Deserted tank T -35.

21. English "aircraft- jackal" "Fairey Battelle". The single-engined diagram was of typical for the light bombers of the 30th annual (photos from the reference book on aircraft RAF)

22. American "aircraft- jackal", light bomber and the attack aircraft of firm Vultees.

23. One of many. Soviet light bomber Su-2. (photograph from the book in. of khazanova)

24. the "diving tank". To the coast it is selected Tauchpanzer BY III. Tanks with the equipment of underwater motion were alternative to amphibious tanks.

25. In the opinion Of v. Suvorov, the explosion is bridge it could stop Wehrmacht. Exploded bridge across the river great (region Of ostrov, 1941).

26. One additional example of the rapid restoration of the fitness for work of bridge. The exploded bridge across Irpen' river, is restored by the field engineers of the 13th tank division with the aid of entire the same K -Geraet.

26. Not all war with the automatic weapons in the hands. German field engineers with the half-pontoon (Waffen Arsenal).

28. Results of the work of engineer pontoon bridge battalion. Built in parallel to that exploded by Soviet troops the floating bridge through the Dnepr in Kremenchug (Waffen Arsenal).

29. English prototype of the Soviet amphibious tanks. Floating tankette "Karden- Lloyd".

30. German "zemnovodnoye"..zhpg target=1 conveyer- tractor LWS of the firm "Of magirus". One can see well that the construction of chassis of machine is borrowed from tank Pz.IV (Shpil'berger).

31. LWS in action. Two conveyers transport across the river tank Pz.IV (Shpil'berger).

32. Study of materiel. 1941. The students of the academy im. F.e. Dzerzhinskiy study the instruments, which were remained from the the tsarist of armii..zhpg target=1 the 122-mm howitzer of obr. 1910/30 yr. and the 152-mm howitzer of obr. 1909/30 yr. such instruments composed the nucleus of Soviet artillery in 1941 (military chronicle).

33. Neobsypannyy "demonstrative DOT". the "line of Molotov"? No, Polish Mlava.

34. "demonstrative" reinforced-concrete pillboxes, on day the detained advance 44-1 infantry divisions. German soldiers will inspect the seized reinforced-concrete pillboxes of the "lines of Molotov".

35. These gloomy young people overcame the position crisis of the first world. Assault teams with the smoke pots, the grenades, the charges of explosive, the wire shears demolished reinforced-concrete pillboxes "lines Mazhino", the "lines of Stalin", the "lines of Molotov" and of grassland boundary (Military Illustrated).

36. Winged cruiser of empire. Twin-engined "strategist" OF VVS OF RKKA - WORKERS' AND PEASANTS' RED ARMY DB -3. They flew in Berlin and Ploiesti (history of aviation).

37. Twin-engined aircraft of strategic aviation. English Vickers "wellington" was by the night nightmare of German municipal in the first period World War II (photograph from the reference book on R.AF)

38. Large bomb for the strategic purposes. Load of 4000- pound (1814 kg) bomb into the bomber "wellington" (photo from there).

39. Twin-engined aircraft of strategic aviation. English Bomber Armstrong- Whitworth Wheatley. On the the front of plane..zhpg target=1 7000 pound (3175 kg) bomb, which bore this aircraft (source the same).

40. Twin-engined aircraft of strategic aviation. American Douglas B -18 (photograph from In action).

41. "rassenyayskiy KV" not was "first-born" in the 6th tank division. Connection already had an experience it was combat with the heavy tanks in France. In the photograph: the hit French heavy tank B 1 bis.

42. It did not stop tank group. Hit by German gunners tank KV -2. It follows from the inscription on the tower that it was hit in the region Dubna 30 June 1941.

---Vil.

-- Edited by Vilkata at 07:30, 2007-06-12

Incredible information digging there Dave!

It's very important to compare this design with its contemporaries.

In 1928 France hadn't built a production tank, other than FT derivatives, since the FCM 2C.

Britain was using the Medium Mk.II tanks, which had virtually no combat capability whatsoever due to paper thin armor and were generally quite unsatisfactory as a combat vehicle.

Italy was still using the Fiat 3000.

The USA was using 5 of Christies M1928 vehicles, which would not have proper turrets until 3 years later. The Cunningham company had also produced a few peculiar looking light tanks the year before.

In all of these countries the vehicles were fundamentally unsatisfactory for the type of war that the 20's and early 30's might bring to them, and most were simply glorified WWI style tanks - the Fiat 3000, the FT derivatives, and the Cunningham tanks which looked like modified farm tractors.

This vehicle, while it appears bizarre and ungainly, has all the hallmarks of a proper modern tank. Furthermore, this tank led directly to the Stridsvagn M/31 (L-10), which incorporated many design elements of this vehicle - the front hull looks very similar, with the front-left hull bulge, drivers comartment, and general turret design unmistakably similar. The M/31 was, as Chamberlain and Ellis put it, singularly advanced for its time. The M/31 was developed at the same time as the Stridsvagn FM/31 (L-30) that Daves translated text refers to. So, Germany got to cooperate with Sweden in the design and build of a, for the time, very advanced vehicle. Daves text seems to imply that the vehicle was entirely designed by Germans, and entirely built by Swedes. I would bet that there was far more cooperation between the two than that.

So, the age old question (at least on this forum) of, "did Germanys secretive tank development with Sweden give any actual benefit to Germanys tank development in WWII?", can now be answered. I would say it's hard to dispute that Germany benefited quite a bit from Swedens cooperation. To what extent is endlessly debatable, but I feel it is entirely undebatable that Germany did recieve a fair ammount of expertise from Swedens cooperation that it would not have had otherwise.

---Vil.