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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Artillery -> German 7,7cm Kanone in Haubitzlafette (7,7cm KiH) Parts
Post Info TOPIC: German 7,7cm Kanone in Haubitzlafette (7,7cm KiH) Parts
Ralph Lovett


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German 7,7cm Kanone in Haubitzlafette (7,7cm KiH) Parts
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I have recently picked up a sight-mount that I at first thought was for the 10,5cm lFH 1916. However, the drum has only one column, where as, the 10,5cm lFH 1916, 10,5cm lFH 1898/09 and the 7,7cm lFK 1916 all have many bag charges and therefor many columns on their range drums.  The only one that seems to be a match is the gun made up of the barrel/cradle of the 7,7cm lFK 96 n/A and the carriage of the 10,5cm lFH 98/09.  That is the 7,7cm Kanone in Haubitzlafette (7,7cm KiH).

To my knowledge, no complete example of a 7,7cm KiH exists today. This could be quite a find if I am correct.

I have attached a few photographs of the sight-mount.

Any thoughts on this topic are welcome.

R/

Ralph

Lovett Artillery




-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Monday 29th of November 2010 10:26:23 AM

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Ralph Lovett


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These are a few more photos of the KiH sight-mount with one that shows a close up.  The 7,800 meter max range on the range drum is evident in one photo.  This is the max range for the 7,7cm KiH.  Another photo shows that there is only one column with numbers.  This indicates a fixed single charge as is found with the 7,7cm lFK 96 n/A and 7,7cm KiH.

R/

Ralph Lovett




-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Monday 29th of November 2010 10:30:52 AM

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Paul Bonnett


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Excellent find, would you consider the paint to be original i.e the red that shows in the second set of pictures.

Paul

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Ralph Lovett


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Paul,

Yes the red primer is original.  This sight-mount was recently recovered from a river in Germany.  It was covered in grease and in amazingly good condition considering it was in water.

R/

Ralph

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Ralph Lovett
Arie Dijkhuis


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Hiya lads,

It is indeed a great find! As far as I know there is no surviving example of this gun. Even pictures are hard to come by. So far I have only found 3, but I am not sure on either of them. See Attatched...

Take care!

-Arie.


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Ralph Lovett


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Arie

Thanks for posting the photos. 

The one with battle damage does seem to be a 7,7cm lFK 96 barrel on the 10,5cm lFH 98 carriage, making it a 7,7cm KiH. 

I suspect that these guns were disassembled for parts to do depot rebuilds for the 7,7cm lFK and 10,5cm lFH once the standard 7,7cm lFK 1916 came out.  I also suspect that very few were ever produced in the first place.  It would be interesting to know the production numbers.

R/

Ralph

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Ralph Lovett
Arie Dijkhuis


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Hi Ralph,

 

 

Cheers for confirming that at least one of the pictures shows a KiH... smile

 

The first picture, the gun standing in the snow, also should show a KiH. As we believe the caption, the picture was taken in the winter of 1915-1916. This rules out the FK16 and the lHF16 (they began to appeared early 1917). As it clearly is not a lFH98/09, it can only be a KiH. That is, if we believe the caption... smile

 

Info on this gun is very difficult to come by. The only info I have is that during the meeting in early 1915 in which the design specifications for the future FK16 and lFH16 were presented to the designers from Krupp and Rheinmetall, the chief designer of Rheinmetall, director Völler, proposed an interim solution, by laying the barrel of the FK96 n/A in the carriage of the lFH98/09. Thus the elevation of the barrel could be increased from 15 to 40 degrees, the range from 5,500 to 7,800 meters. As early as July 1915 the first guns were sent to the front to be tested. Source: 50 Jahre Rheinmetall Düsseldorf 1889 - 1939 page 45.

 

It is possible that these guns were only in production from early 1915 - early 1917, were then dismantled, the carriages reused for the FK16 and lFH16 and the barrels to form replacements for the old FK96 n/A. When the FK16s were built, the production of the FK96 n/A was stopped, but production was quickly resumed, as they needed the FK96 n/A first as an Infantriegeschütz, then for the Infantrie Begleit Batterien.

 

Without more info it is impossible to say how many were produced and what happened to these guns after the FK16 began to appear. Does anyone have a copy of Das Gerät der leichten Artillerie, part 1: Feldgeschütze, by Alfred Muther? Doesnt this contain more info?

 

With kind regards,

 

-Arie.

 



-- Edited by Arie Dijkhuis on Tuesday 30th of November 2010 09:36:13 PM

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Arie Dijkhuis


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...and for good measure, the scale drawings I did... should be an easy enough conversion, using the carriage of the Ace lFH16 kit and the barrel of the Emhar 77mm FK96 n/A.

Take care!

-Arie.


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Ralph Lovett


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Arie

Very nice drawing of the KiH. Again, thanks for posting it.

Late next month I plan to assemble one of the two 7,7cm lFK 1896 n/A guns I have and I also have two carriages of the 10,5cm lFH type.  I had put some thought into temporarily assembling these sets as a KiH but the elevation mechanism would have to be altered.  Of course I am trying to keep everything as original as possible so that ended the idea of making a hybrid KiH.

This is the one I will go back to work on in December:

7,7cm lFK 96 n/A with 1917 date

R/

Ralph

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Ralph Lovett
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I must take issue with the third photograph.   The weapon system mounted on the 5 ton truck is a 7,5cm  Belgian Krupp.   ( note the longer barrel and recuperator, along with the distinctive "ears" of the splinter shield. ) A goodly number of these pieces were held in storage after their capture in 1914, and pressed into late war service as tank killers. 
  As you likely know,  the Germans were preparing for defense against  the coming tank assaults of "Plan 1919",  and at war's end had created a number of truck mounted field gun batteries.  They were early versions of Pz.Jdgr,  and fired directly from the lorry platform.  I have a number of pics in my collection very similar to the above,  and all have the Belge Beute Kanone in common.



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Ralph Lovett


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Arie

Yes, I have a copy ofDas Gerät der leichten Artillerie, part 1: Feldgeschütze, by Alfred Muther.  Page 283 and 284 cover the 7,7cm KiH.  My German is not the most practiced so it will take a little time to work through a translation.  I will hopefully have some time this weekend. 

R/

Ralph

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Ralph Lovett
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This weekend I have made a very rough translation of a few sentences on the 7,7cm KiH found on pages 34-35 in Das Geraet der leichten Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg by Alfred Muther:

In June 1915 the KiH had already been introduced to the front.At the same time the 7,7cm Gr.15 projectile was introduced.These two factors improved upon the performance of the light field gun. Reports from the troops indicated that an improved light field gun was needed.These reports advocated a carriage that would allow greater range without having to dig in the spade, as was necessary for the old 7,7cm lFK 96 n/A to achieve increased range.Rheinmetall in the mean time looked to improve the lFK further by increasing the barrel length and by use of the recently introduced higher velocity ammunition.

In addition to these few sentences there is a short section on page 283 that offers opinions of troops in the field regarding the 7,7cm KiH.This section list the KiH in service with the following units:

2 Batterie Feldartillerie Regiments Nr. 22

6 Batterie Feldartillerie Regiments Nr. 18

Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 183

183. Infanterie Division

8 Batterie Reserve Feldartillerie Regiments Nr. 17

General Kommandos VII A.K.

Ersass Feldartillerie Regiments Jueterbog

K.M.A.D. v.4.10.15 ueber die Radunterlagen von Rheinmetall.

I have not yet translated the bulk of page 283.Hopefully, I will find some meaningful information as I translate from this page.

R/

Ralph Lovett



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Ralph Lovett
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Pardon me for being a tinge off the topic;
That pic with the 7.7 on the flatbed, what kind of truck is it? I'd like to model it.

Greetings, Josh

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