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Post Info TOPIC: BEUTEPANZER RECAPTURED AND REUSED?


Corporal

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BEUTEPANZER RECAPTURED AND REUSED?
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DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY INCIDENTS WHEN PREVIOUSLY CAPTURED BRITISH TANKS WERE RECAPTURED AND REUSED BY THE BRITISH ?
 WERE THERE ANY MK1V VS BEUTETPANZER MKIV BATTLES?
WHEN WERE THE FIRST BEUTEPANZERS USED -WE'RE THEY CAPTURED MK1'S AFTER THE SOMME / YPRES OR ONLY EVER MK1V'S?
I WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR ALL HELP GIVEN

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Legend

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I dont know of any Recaptued tanks that were reused, maybe for parts?
As far as i know all the captured British tanks used in combat on the western front by the germans were MKIVs, mostly if not all from wrecks salvaged from Cambrai at least one Whippet was used in Germany after the war, not aware of any use of earlier MKs of rhomboid tanks, I think actually it was probarbly a case of two few it took a lot of spares to keep these tanks working...

Cheerssmile

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Legend

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The Beutepanzer mark IV acquisition and use is detailed in Hundleby & Strasheim's book - "The German A7V Tank" (1990). Unfortunately this is out of print and second hand copies sell for stupid amounts (>$200) these days. Hopefully Tankograd might do a volume on the Beutepanzers in WW1.

The earliest German examination of a Mark I was at the Battle of the Somme in 1916 but this was fairly cursory. Although various tanks were examined (usually knocked out) during 1917 it wasn't until after Cambrai in Nov 1917 that the Germans captured running Mark IVs. Out of 50 captured at Cambrai the Germans managed to get about 30 running. they were first used at St Quentin, 21 March 1918. The Germans found the Mark IV too slow to be able to support infantry attacks so they never were very useful to the German army. The Beute Mark IVs were not recovered after they broke down or hit so the British may have recaptured some.

However, the British were re-equiping with the Mark V so the Mark IVs were considered obsolete and there's no record of the reuse of Beute Mark IVs. The Germans rearmed many of Beute Mark IVs - I'd guess the British didn't think it worthwhile to change them back to British armament.

Regards,

Charlie

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Brigadier

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CharlieC wrote:


The Beutepanzer mark IV acquisition and use is detailed in Hundleby & Strasheim's book - "The German A7V Tank" (1990). Unfortunately this is out of print and second hand copies sell for stupid amounts (>$200) these days. Hopefully Tankograd might do a volume on the Beutepanzers in WW1.


Actually there will be! The author is our colleague mad zeppelin and the book will probably appear in the first half of 2011. I can't wait!
But still Hundleby & Strasheim's book from 1990 is a must in my opinion - this is the best book on German tanks in the First World War and probably the best book on WW1 armor! Their book from 2010 is a fantastic update but doesn't cover beutepanzers and doesn't describe combat history of A7V tanks in such a detail as book from 1990. 

 



-- Edited by Albert on Thursday 9th of December 2010 06:24:44 PM

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Legend

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I had a feeling that I'd read somewhere of some Tanks changing hands more than once, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

By the time Beute Mk IVs were being knocked out or abandoned they were obsolete as far as the Allies were concerned. The German modifications (to the gun mounts in particular) would have had to be reversed and I suspect it wasn't worth the time and effort, even to use them for Supply Tanks. I could, of course, be wrong.

As far as I can see, all Beutepanzer recaptured by the British were broken up. But the French captured at least two (Liesel and Lotte ) and put them on display at the Fort de la Pompelle, near Reims, where they remained until 1942, when the Germans took them away and melted them down.

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Pat


Commander in Chief

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The tanks of Fort de la Pompelle are interesting, not at last because the museum exhibits a recently found wheel.

Liesel and Lotte seem to have been popular photo subject (no connection to the sellers):
http://cars.ebay.com.au/WW1-GERMAN-TANK-LIESEL-FORT-DE-LA-POMPELLE-POSTCARDS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ170546651307

See also
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=63528&p=3&topicID=9477264
http://atf40.forumculture.net/blindes-anciens-encore-utilises-en-1940-f65/chars-de-la-1ere-guerre-t1183.htm

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Commander in Chief

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FlirtII was captured at Cambrai, and repaired. I think it was used for propaganda purposes and was retrieved at the Wars end, it can be seen at the Lincolnshire Life Museum.
http://www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html

 Why was it brough back to Blighty?



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