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Post Info TOPIC: Naval infantry / sailors in infantry role
Pat


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Naval infantry / sailors in infantry role
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This is very much a wargaming oriented question, so please bear with me.

Which troops wore naval uniforms in actual land combat during WW1, and which 1/72-1/76 miniatures could represent them?

I am aware of the British Naval Division and the German Flandernmatrosen, but have doubts how much naval gear they actual wore except for the photographer or in the very first days of their war. I am completely clueless about other nations, such as France's fusiliers marines.

What I am aware of is the increasing number of 1/72-1/76 "marines" or sailor sets such as the Pegasus Soviets and the Red Box Boxer rebellion sets.

Thanks in advance, regards, Pat



-- Edited by Pat on Monday 23rd of May 2011 08:50:36 PM

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Excelsior1


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Will check on me Osprey books and send more info tonight-ish. Am sure I have something, especially on the French troops.

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James H


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To the best of my knowledge, the Fusiliers Marins wore naval uniforms at the outbreak, switching to Horizon Blue when the rest of the Army did. Couple of pics here. The first one looks like one of Albert Kahn's.

One assumes that the troops that took part on the Yser would have been in this kit.

Uniform was Navy Blue with black leather webbing.



-- Edited by James H on Tuesday 24th of May 2011 04:48:47 PM

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Excelsior1


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All I can do is add to the above: The Fusiliers Marins, from 1915, wore the standard navy uniform with ratings in the caps shown in James H's photo above, and petty and commissioned officers in peaked caps. Adrian helmets were worn where issued. They apparently wore the jersey over their striped shirt out of the line, and navy trousers tucked into black leather gaiters, later dark blue puttees. The horizon blue great coat was worn after the change over to that colour. Army issue equipment was as standard. I can't tell whether they made the transition to horizon blue entirely or retained dark blue uniform items as per the Chassuers a Pied.

Regarding the British Naval divisions, I couldn't find much. From 1915 (again) they wore army service dress (it seems with khaki naval caps to begin with, then the Brodie helmet). They also had a white lanyard on their left shoulder, and naval rank badges on the left sleeve, with army ones on the right (that's how I understood it from the British Army Insignia 14-18 Osprey book, anyway).

Hope that's of use. In my opinion, research is always worth doing - so keep searching - and then exercise artisic licence when you have as much as you can get.
As for figures, no idea I'm afraid.

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Pat


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Many thanks for your replies, much appreciated. Maybe something about the German Marinekorps turns up as well. It appears all naval infantry / sailor infantry actions of all nations are very heavily retouched by propaganda.

I was about to post a list of Fusiliers marins links I compiled here when my browser went on strike. I was able to rediscover these:

Fusiliers marins 1914, illustrated article from 1968 (in French)

http://www.hervedavid.fr/francais/14-18/fusiliers%20marins%20extrait%20article.htm

(Posed) images and some text:

http://www.parisenimages.fr/fr/popup-photo.html?photo=451-13

http://secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/defense/2009/12/dixmude-fut-dabord-le-verdun-des-fusiliers-marins.html

http://collections14-18.skynetblogs.be/archive/2010/01/12/dixmude-les-fusiliers-marins.html

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Fusiliers_Marins/Fusiliers_Marins_01.htm

 



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jagjetta


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Here is a photo of Italian Marine Infantry from WWI known as the "Brigata Marina". After the war, they became known as the "San Marco Brigade".

 

John



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John A-G.
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Pat


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Thanks for reminding me of the San Marco unit.

Some images of German "Flandernmatrosen":

http://www.cassiodor.com/Artikel/3702.aspx

(no connection to the seller)

http://www.chakoten.dk/cgi-bin/fm.cgi?lang=dk&n=880

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23125

http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.fg-zinnfiguren.de/pieper.htm

Uniform detail:

"...blaues Bordzeug, ergänzt durch Segeltuchgamaschen und Rucksack, teils schwarzen, teils grauen Mänteln ... Die Marine-Infanterie-Regimenter trugen die feld-graue Uniform der Seebataillone mit gelben Gardelitzen und Tschako mit Überzeug, die Matrosenregimenter trugen anfangs marine-blaues Bordzeug und Marinemütze, später im Graben- und Batteriedienst feldgraue Mütze bzw. Stahlhelm. Als Arbeitszeug wurde feldgrauer Drillich im Blusenschnitt getragen, aber als Sonntagskluft im Ruhequartier kam bis zum Schluß des Krieges das blaue "Päckchen" heraus, manchmal trug sich der "Kuli" auch halb feldgrau, halb blau."

Summary: In 1914, sailors wore their blue uniforms, with canvas gaiters and rucksack, some black, others black coats. Marine regiments wore the field grey Seebataillon uniform with czako, sailors' regiments wore navy blue uniforms and navy caps, later - when in action - field grey caps or steel helmets.



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Tankcommander


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Try this book (Dutch written):

Marinekorps Flandern, de Vlaamse kust en het hinterland tijdens WO1 (Marinekorps Flandern, the Flemish coast and the hinterland during WW1).

Written by: RYHEUL Johan

ISBN 9789078878878131

Price: +/- 44Euro

It contains (+/-): Ships, uniforms (in black/White pic's), Planes, Coastal defence, Attacks, Armour, History,...

DJ

onix_9789078878131.jpg



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James H


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"After the change to Horizon Blue in the (French) Army, puttees and greatcoats of that shade were certainly worn by Naval personnel but they appear to have retained their Navy uniform as much as possible throughout the War." - Osprey.

The original greatcoat was Infantry gris de fer bleuté.



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Excelsior1


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Isn't there a museum at Nieuport that covers the German units?

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Tankcommander


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Exelsior,

For the moment don't know about  a museum concerning WW1 in Newport (Nieuwpoort), gonna ask them, if yes I shall put it on  this site

DJ



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Excelsior1


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Had a look at my Holts' guide (Western Front, North) and it's actually at Ostende: the Domein Raversijde, which covers both world wars and has "the only well-preserved '14-'18 coastal defences remaining today."
The main site is the Aachen Battery, c.1915, and has a comms centre, bomb-proof shelter, observation posts and gun emplacement remains. Mannquins in the bunkers represent German naval personnel - in grey AND blue - and their original uniforms are apparently rare.
Not one I've visited so far but it appears worthwhile, and there are apprently 2km of coastal defences (the orginal ones were beefed up for the second world war) to explore.



-- Edited by Excelsior1 on Friday 27th of May 2011 10:12:25 PM

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Tankcommander


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Hi,

That is correct, at Raversijde is existing a site concerning coast defence (I have only visited the WWII part). At the entrance you have to make a choice between the WW1 or WW2 site. Both parts have never seen real "action" but existed as part of the coastal defence. Visit is only possible with a guide.

DJ 



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Pat


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Many thanks for all your input gentlemen. I appreciate it, as well as the hints about 1:1 coastal fortifications. Pity it can only be visited with a guide. Regards, Pat



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