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Post Info TOPIC: Beute Mark IV Female - 1940?France


Colonel

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Beute Mark IV Female - 1940?France
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http://photo.qip.ru/photo/agel12/115423381/128983715.jpg



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TankPower 1915-1939...



Commander in Chief

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L52 'Lyric' near the Fort de la Pompelle - not exactly Beute; but most tourists believed she was.



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MZ


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It's in amazing condition, seeing as it's been lying out in the open for 20+ years.

What happened to it?



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Major

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Hello,

This Beute Mark IV is the "Lotte", one of the numerous german "Beute Panzerwagen" destroyed the 1th June 1918 near La Pompelle Fort (East of Reims).
This day, the "Beute" Mark IV "Lotte", "Liesel", "Heinz", "Max", "Moritz", "Hedda" were destroyed or blown up by their crew.The french artillery destroyed four of these "Beute" Mark IV.The same day, one other german tank, the A7V "Lotti" was also destroyed near La Pompelle Fort.
All the tanks were left in the ground in 1918-1923 years but only one, the "Lotte", destroyed near the "route nationale" between Reims and Châlons-sur-Marne, was preserved until 1940 and destroyed by the germans after 1940.The others "Beute" Mark IV were sold as old iron in 1920 years.
The 15th July 1918 in Champagne, the losses were also heavy for "Beute" Mark IV, germans lost the "Olaf", "Wolf", "Bertha", "Bob", "Kerlchen", "Kathi" and a other whom the name is not known, because the tank was totally destroyed by french artillery and cut literally in piece.At least, three tanks were destroyed by "anti-tank" 75 mm gun (on special mounting) and at least two by "mines" (french shells of heavy artillery with special fuse buried in the ground).
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

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Legend

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I'm sorry Guy, I don't agree with your identification. I agree with MZ.

Gwyn

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Major

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Hello,

Please, give us some explanation.I do not understand the words "L 52 "Lyric"...not exactly Beute".
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

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Legend

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L 52 was this tanks original battalion number. By this stage of the war nearly every British heavy tank had a name that began with the battalion letter, in this case L and the tanks name was "Lyric". The tank itself was not a beute tank but put in place to replace a previous beute tank.



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Major

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Hello,

Thank you, Mark, for your reply!
I have many 1918 and 1919 photographs of all german Beute Mark IV tanks and the A7V "Lotti" destroyed near La Pompelle and also one of "Lotte", taken in 1925 with the Malta Crosses still visible but with painting in bad condition.
I am very interested by the date of replacement of the original Beute Tank by "Lyric"!
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

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Commander in Chief

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'Lyric' was in place in August 1927, so it must have replaced 'Liesel' between 1925 and mid-1927.

The Guide Michellin of 1925 for the area Reims - Champagne still says 'Lotte' and 'Liesel' are in place and can be visited by tourists.



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MZ


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Pzkpfw-e wrote:

It's in amazing condition, seeing as it's been lying out in the open for 20+ years.

What happened to it?


 I think this is Estonia in 1941. In Estonia, the three tanks Mk V (the names "Paalik", "Uku" and "Wahtula"), were in the army until 1939. When Russian came to Estonia, the tanks were sent to the warehouse. During the defense of Tallin in 1941, Russians reintroduced them into battle - all were taken Wehrmacht.
Here is pictures of the captured former Estonian "Uku" in 1941.



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Джорж Дебил-Ю Буш козел вонючий!


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Ivan wrote:
 I think this is Estonia in 1941. In Estonia, the three tanks Mk V (the names "Paalik", "Uku" and "Wahtula"), were in the army until 1939. 

 

This is a female Mk.IV (and originally configured as a top drawer, although these parts were already gone by 1940) and not a Mk. V.

 



-- Edited by mad zeppelin on Saturday 16th of July 2011 03:52:04 PM

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MZ


Legend

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Hi this pic of Lotte dated 1921 may be usefull... and a front view of Lyric 1940+

 

Cheerswink



-- Edited by Ironsides on Sunday 17th of July 2011 03:11:18 PM

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 



Commander in Chief

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'Lotte' in1940:



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MZ


Field Marshal

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mad zeppelin wrote:
Ivan wrote:
 I think this is Estonia in 1941. In Estonia, the three tanks Mk V (the names "Paalik", "Uku" and "Wahtula"), were in the army until 1939. 

 

This is a female Mk.IV (and originally configured as a top drawer, although these parts were already gone by 1940) and not a Mk. V.

 



-- Edited by mad zeppelin on Saturday 16th of July 2011 03:52:04 PM


 Estonian "Wahtula" was female, and "Paalik" composite.



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Джорж Дебил-Ю Буш козел вонючий!


Commander in Chief

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What mad zeppelin was trying to say was: Estonia had Mark V, not Mark IV. The picture shows a Mark IV, so it can't be in Estonia 1941.

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Pat


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This occasion is as good as any to say thank you for sharing your knowledge gentlemen, so I'll post it here.



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Field Marshal

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Bonsoir,

Always about Lotte, Liesel and Lyric . . . .

 http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale-chars-d-assaut/beutepanzer-allemands-pompelle-sujet_1389_1.htm

Michel



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Commander in Chief

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See Tankograd 'Beute Tanks', chapter 'The la Pompelle Tank Caper', which has the whole story and explains why the Suippes tank was not 'Lyric'.



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MZ
Rob


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Does anyone have any images of these anti-tank 75mm guns on special mountings used by the French?

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Legend

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Tanker wrote:

Bonsoir,

Always about Lotte, Liesel and Lyric . . . .

 http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale-chars-d-assaut/beutepanzer-allemands-pompelle-sujet_1389_1.htm

Michel


Hi Tanker Excellent information thanks for posting the link

Cheerssmile



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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 



Legend

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Again I agree with MZ.  The Suippes tank was 2709. 'Lyric' was 2648.  QED.

Gwyn



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Field Marshal

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Bonjour,

And I agree too !

My Suippes tank postecard was not so good and I have not read the Tankograd book . . . .  !

My topic would first spoken about Mark IV postcard on La Pompelle.

This mistake will be amended in a few time on my topic . . . .

Bonne après-midi - Michel



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Major

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Hello,

I have some some photographs and drawings of the "75 sur chevalet de tir" for anti-tank use in 1918, they are on the french Forum "Pages14-18" new subject of this day in pages "artillerie".
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

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