Landships II

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Basic card model - Mk1 tank


Corporal

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Basic card model - Mk1 tank
Permalink   


I've been loitering on Landships for the last couple of months and thought I'd try a basic card model of a tank.
Purpose of this post is hopefully to motivate someone else like me, to make a model too.

There certainly are some stunning models to be seen on here, but the high quality stuff can make attempting a model seem like a fairly daunting affair.

I reckon it needn't be high standard work to be worthwhile. You can get a semi-decent result and something neat to sit on your desk without too much effort - and I found it tremendous fun to do.

My first effort won't win any prizes or praise, I just wanted to do a practice one, and add some basic 'details' (I use that word loosely) to get the feel for it. So if you're like me, stop thinking about making a model and jump in.

Big thanks go to Helen for most of the drawings I used. I went with heavy 3mm card for most of it because that's what I had lying around and I wanted something sturdy. 1/32 scale seemed about the 'right' size for the job.

I've already started on a better quality male and female pair of Mk1s, intend to make tail wheels on one (maybe both depending how work proceeds). I'm collecting A7V info/pics now as well:>



Attachments
__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

 

That's a creditable cardmodel Mark I. May I suggest a couple of ideas:

PVA for rivets has the downside that the rivet shape collapses as the glue dries so you wind up with a disk rather than a rivet shape. A way of making well shaped rivets is here:

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/tips-tricks/14919-rivets-rivets.html - basically adds DE (diatomaceous earth) to PVA so the rivet shape is retained when the glue dries.

I think I'd make the doors,etc from 200gsm card or similar - they look overscale thick with 3mm card.

Scoring on the hinge line of the tracks is a good way to get the tracks to bend around the model realistically - there are other techniques - http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/armory/247-panzer-1f-tracks-resurrected.html.

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Corporal

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks Charlie, interesting links, cheers.

On a big learning curve. Yeah, I certainly found the pva sunk away (especially on unsealed porous primer paint). I actually found a more gelatinous type of PVA that worked a lot better. Flat rivet trick may come in handy on side of turret adjacent to track on next model.

I also found dabbing rivets with a needle wasn't as good as a using a small piece of wire with a flat filed on the end, gave a better 'blob' shape. With a bit more care than I used on this one, should be possible to get fairly good results with glue rivets. They need to be just under a mm wide at this scale though.

I've started experimenting with molds for rivets (and track plates, uh-oh what am I getting into?) but it's tricky. Next time I'd just like a nice cleaner edge.

If anyone else was to use the quick and dirty wrap-around card track trick, far better to glue something on the track horns part to get a proper flat track plate look on the radius. Would be well worth the small extra effort to get rid of the 'rounded' track plate look. Card I used here was 1mm, still too thick - needs to be closer to 0.3mm for scale at this size. I just used what I had lying around, Have collected more grades for next attempt.

I hope other first timers see this and think 'hey, I can do that too - probably better' and give it a try. I took a lot of short cuts on this. I didn't check track width either. I went with what I thought 'looked OK' (coincidentally came out scale for MKV width, so really my calling this a mk1 is a slight stretch). I cut track plate number to save some time too.

For other newbies: I found a nice little scale calculator app that makes converting drawing dimensions to any scale a piece of cake, so don't let that aspect bother you.

Added pic of pair of next models at basic stage. Almost tempted to bin them already though, as I've had further ideas on improving accuracy/construction methods.



Attachments
__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

 

The classic route for cardmodels above 1/50 is to build a frame of 1mm card and skin the frame with about 160gsm printed card. It's possible to get very strong structures with 1mm card - it's all down to engineering. I've attached a coupe of images of the frames of a Mark IV - this is a commercial kit published by Modelik.

There are two schools in cardmodels - one uses the printed card the other air brushes the card like a plastic model. The former is harder to do because you can't hide mistakes under the paint.

If the skin of the model is fairly thin then it's possible to emboss rivets rather than the "drop of stuff" on the surface.

Regards,

Charlie



Attachments
__________________


Hero

Status: Offline
Posts: 808
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Mark, glad the plans are of use. Sorry about the lack of plans for the tail wheels, looks like it's going to be a winter project. 

Thinking on Charlie's idea of embossing the card form behind, would it be possible to print out segments of the plans onto stiff paper, emboss it, then past it on to card.

Looks very nice, will be watching out for future progress pics.

Helen x



-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Tuesday 20th of September 2011 12:51:46 AM

__________________


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Charlie,  that MarkIV is not a MarkIV, the model is miss-titled by, I think, Modelik!



__________________
ChrisG


The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity (Dorothy Parker)


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

LincolnTanker wrote:

Hi Charlie,  that MarkIV is not a MarkIV, the model is miss-titled by, I think, Modelik!


 I know that - Modelik modelled the Mark IV at Bovington which has had louvres added to the rear of the hull. It's fairly easy to fix that on the printed parts sheets, or rather scans of the printed sheets. I built the frame before I realised that the Bovington Mark IV had been modified.

Regards,

Charlie



-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 20th of September 2011 01:27:50 AM

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

MK1 Nut wrote:

 

Thinking on Charlie's idea of embossing the card form behind, would it be possible to print out segments of the plans onto stiff paper, emboss it, then past it on to card.

 

Helen x



-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Tuesday 20th of September 2011 12:51:46 AM


 Helen,

You mean like the attached?

Scale is 1/25.

Regards,

Charlie



Attachments
__________________


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Charlie

Quote  - 'Modelik modelled the Mark IV at Bovington which has had louvres added to the rear of the hull.'

Didn't know about the added louvres at Bovington!

Here is a build of the model, and it shows the crew front plate to be MarkIV.

http://www.ukpapermodels.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=325&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

 



__________________
ChrisG


The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity (Dorothy Parker)


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

LincolnTanker wrote:

Hi Charlie

Quote  - 'Modelik modelled the Mark IV at Bovington which has had louvres added to the rear of the hull.'

Didn't know about the added louvres at Bovington!

Here is a build of the model, and it shows the crew front plate to be MarkIV.

http://www.ukpapermodels.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=325&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

 


 Quite right - I should have checked personally rather than relying on received information.

The Mark IV build is quite nice - it's an example of the "airbrushing after building" technique. The problem with the tracks on this model is an error in the booklet - it's ambiguous whether the track elements should be printed on 200gsm or 80 gsm.

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Corporal

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Charlie. Like the pics very much. I actually like models via both methods. Have downloaded a coupla freebee print ones I intend to try. Haven't seen the modelik one in my travels. It's almost too good to cover up. 1mm card is certainly easier to cut. I ended up gang-filing my sides for uniformity. More sophisticated methods will be taken up in due course.  Found that laminating very thin card works great for curves, eg. Sponson gun shield parts. I'm still mucking around. Even thinking about making a clay one for fun.

BTW was thinking that using diatomaceous earth on model almost worth it just to say I used it, but with the level I'm at, maybe application of night soil could be more appropriate :)

I'd tried embossing rivets but kept tearing. Maybe a making a little die would do the trick.

Hey there Helen. You've already done such sterling work, take a break. I'm sure I can come up with a reasonable facsimile. I've studied every tail-wheel pic I've got but still a few angles a mystery. Higher priority (and easier) might be a MK1 female sponson? I bought the Airfix male & female kits but I'm dubious about that female sponson. Seems very different to the Bovington MK2 fem (eg far too wide compared to Bov one).

I hadn't joined Landships 'til after I finished my practice model, so some dwgs I used were the small thumbnails. I've since downloaded the Hi-res ones so I promise a more serious effort this time to try and do justice to your work. I've layed them all up in Photoshop, found it works well to cut bits from old photos/museum photos to overlay here and there too.



Attachments
__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

 

Modelik has published 1/25 Whippet, St Chamond and A7V as well as the Mark IV (www.modelik.pl).

WAK (www.wak.pl) has published a couple of WW1 armoured cars.

There are some free between wars (M2A1, Medium Mark II, T1E1, M1 Armoured Car and T4E1 Combat Car) 1/48 models on papermodelers.com but you have to register and post before you can download (or ask me).

There are a couple of tricks with embossing - if you are working with plain card then a small drop of Methylated Spirits (Meths) will soften the card so it won't tear as easily. I use an old mouse mat as a backing sheet. If you're working with ink jet printed sheets then the printed surface has to be sealed with matt acrylic spray before using Meths.



__________________


Corporal

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink   

Thankyou again Charlie. I certainly want to do the Whippet now. I had a good look at Firefly (you suggested to 'bigtank'). Those Belgians seem to have some superb AFV examples, great patina. 'Lodestar' my fav museum tank.  

Yeah - been looking at armoured cars, look like really good card candidates too. Right now eyeing up a nice Daimler truck with beautiful cast spoke wheels + AA gun on back - sigh. Thinking about 1-48 scale so I can attempt more models (or grow another pair of hands and go to bed even later).

I had some encouraging results embossing track shapes last night. Making a better die form to dolly the shape into now.  Cheers, meths did help (apart from the nasty taste), card stayed damp enough for long enough. Going to try soaking in thinned glue to get it to hold shape better next.

Liked the mouse pad/backing pad trick, I didn't think of that - but just about everything I look at lately is with a view to how it might be applicable to building a better model! Better lay off the meths... :>



-- Edited by Enzedder on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 03:56:21 PM



-- Edited by Enzedder on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 04:07:52 PM

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2318
Date:
Permalink   

 

Andriy Romanchuk has some free 1/43 WW1 armoured cars on hs website http://allfrompaper.narod.ru/indexe.htm (click "AFV" on the menu) - these include the Austin-Putilov, Jeffery Armoured Car No.1, Mgebrov-Renault, Mgebrov-White, Poplavko-Jeffery and Russo-Balt C24/40.

If the smell of Meths gets to you isopropyl alcohol can be used but it's more expensive.

Filling the back of embossed rivets with glue may not work all that well because the glue shrinks while it's hardening. I use a drop of artist's acrylic varnish - seem to work better.

Regards,

Charlie



-- Edited by CharlieC on Friday 23rd of September 2011 12:40:22 AM



-- Edited by CharlieC on Friday 23rd of September 2011 12:45:31 AM



-- Edited by CharlieC on Friday 23rd of September 2011 12:49:21 AM

__________________


Corporal

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink   

Well, I got a bit sidetracked on my Mk1 - 2nd attempt. Thought I'd try an A7V - simple print/card model (Baden 505. Thanks to Clifton McCullough for the free download)

Later decided to add a bit more detail. Made some tracks, suggested the suspension parts, opened a few hatches etc. 1/72 seemed too fiddly so I bumped it up to 1/48. Even at that size I found it quite difficult to work with though.

Here it is at first rough assembly and a first splash of paint. Was going to turn this into "Mephisto" but further research reveals most early (single plate side) A7s had no exhaust pipes. I was quite exhaustive in making the paper-over-wire pipes so I can't bring myself to leaving them off - so "Baden" it will be.

Good fun and was more careful with this one. Think it should turn out OK. Rivets to go on next, that should give it a lift. (note, plate angles look a bit off in photos due to camera lens pin-cushion effect)

Thanks again Charlie. I grabbed those. Building a nice stash of dwgs now. Looking forward to my trying first Armoured car. I really like the 'limitations' with this card modelling caper, really excercises the problem solving abilities. Haven't touched my fancy Airfix kits yet.



Attachments
__________________


Corporal

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink   

Well I've been a bit lax in progress with these. Was tempted to dump them and start afresh but I might as well finish them off. Intend to move to more conventional 1/35 scale or maybe even 1/25 for one with tail wheels as spokes will be problematic in thin card. Helen, if you're still watching, I promise I'll get something done to do justice to your drawings. Hope you get a kick out of seeing your work making it's way to the other side of the world anyway.

I'm experimenting with aluminium tracks. I araldite glued 2 strips of an oven bake tray (to get the correct scale thickness) and dollied the track grip shapes using a clay form (mold) I made.



Attachments
__________________


Hero

Status: Offline
Posts: 808
Date:
Permalink   

Hi, Don't Panic! just commenting on this to bump it back up and watch how your build gets on.

I have now gathered together as much info on the tailwheel and mechanism as I can... although would love to run a tape measure over the real one :/ .... and I have now started on this important feature of the MK1 tanks.

Keep up the good work, still seems odd seeing it in 3D, but good to see.

Helen x



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard