Landships II

eugene · Field Marshal

any one know what this is?

Robert Langham · Corporal

Looks like an early gatling gun I saw at the Firepower! Museum of the Royal Artillery at Woolwich, London, but with a shield - probably either a descendant from that or brought out of storage to be used

eugene · Field Marshal

oh like a gettling gun!
yeah no wonder it looked familiar

Roger Todd · Legend

That URL doesn't work, have you saved it?

Centurion · Legend

It doesn't even work in the original ML posting. The e bay entry has probably been discontinued.

Tim R · Hero

Here is the photo's

Tim R.

Centurion · Legend

Its not a Gatling its a Naval gun mounted on a land carriage. Its 1880s vintage. I have to go out now but I'll post details later this evening and possibly a photo

28juni14 · Hero

This is a 37mm Hotchkiss revolver cannon. Orignially intended as a naval gun, they were in wide spread use during the late 80s and 90s. The French employed many of these guns in their fortress systems. Thusly, a number were captured with the fall of Maubeuge & etc.

Tim, I believe I sent you some sketches of the German version employed for balloon defense. If it's possible to post any of it here, you may.

-- Edited by 28juni14 at 18:28, 2005-12-20

Centurion · Legend

Yes a Hotchkiss 37 mm. Hotchkiss was originally Gatling's European agent but developed the concept into large calibre weapons going as big as a 53 mm version. The 37mm version was originally developed by the Russian end of the Hotchkiss industrial empire. Hotchkiss revolving cannon were primarily naval weapons intended to counter fast torpedo boats as well as been used as a frotress weapon. There was also a 47mm version and some smaller than 37 mm calibres. It required a minimum crew of two, one to aim and turn the handle and one to feed shells through a vertical magazine on the top of the gun. Hotchkiss cannon were used by the French and Russian navy althouth the USn and RN also used some.

I enclose a shot of a Hotchkiss revolving cannon on a more conventional field carriage.

Tim R · Hero

Yes you did Jack, I will try and post it tomorrow.

All The Best

Tim R.

eugene · Field Marshal

wow

you learn something each day,

did russia have these kinds of guns as well in the war, you mentioned it in your explanation centurion?

Centurion · Legend

eugene wrote:

wow you learn something each day, did russia have these kinds of guns as well in the war, you mentioned it in your explanation centurion?

Eugene: I got some of the info from a couple of Russian sites. One had an English version and talks only about the gun on ships. The second was in Cyrilic but did include a drawing of one of these guns in some form of embrasure so probably a fortress use. The Naval Gun by Hogg and Batchelor contains detais of the heavier versions on shps. But don't forget these guns were around in the 1880s and 1890s and wether they were still in service in 1914 is a moot point. The French had a tendency to put all sorts of old stuff into the trenches even using old 18th centuryCohorn mortars purloined from Chateau (where they had probably long been mere garden ornaments) as trench mortars. So I wouldn't be surprised if some French guns of this type went to war again. (Given that the British army ordered a considerable number of rubber powered catapults for the trenches I shouldn't be snide about the French - everybody did it)

Tim: I have an interest in seeing the Hotchkiss intended as a balloon buster. One of the problems of any pre Maxim machine gun was the fact that their gravity ammunition feed didn't work properly when the gun was elevated (or depressed) to any extent. It would be intersting to see if any mods had been applied to overcome this.

eugene · Field Marshal

could you provide the links to the webiste
or the words you used in google searching this?

28juni14 · Hero

Centurian - I have yet to uncover a photograph of the RevolverKanone fitted with the 10-rd magazines commonly used with the weapon in pre-war times.

Centurion · Legend

eugene wrote:

could you provide the links to the webiste or the words you used in google searching this?

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_37mm_Hotchkiss.htm

This links to the page in English - I'm afraid I didn't keep the link to the other and cannot remember the exact search but it ould have contained hotchkiss and 37mm probably

eugene · Field Marshal

thanks
i found the russian one using google
ill translate and post if there is anything interesting there

Tim R · Hero

Sorry Guys, I have been so busy at work I have not had time to post Jacks work, i will try sometime after Christmas.

Work,Work,Work,Work!!!!!!!!!!!

All the Best

Tim R

SASH155 · Major

It is a 3.7cm Revolver Kanone, a Gruson Werke copy of the Hotchkiss 37x94mm revolver cannon, usually used in fortifications. The Germans used some captured Hotchkiss made weapons as well from France and Russia. The mount is an extemporised one for field use for support of Stoss-Truppen and infantry on the attack. As someone noted earlier, they were also widely employed as naval weapons.

-- Edited by SASH155 at 00:56, 2005-12-24

Tim R · Hero

Here is a version being used as a anti-aircraft gun,quite unique.

I will get Jacks drawing on line after the holidays.

All The Best

Tim R

28juni14 · Hero

What makes you think the mount is "extemporised" ? And, what leads you to believe it was used for mobile support of Strosstruppen ? You have my curiosity awake.....

SASH155 · Major

I stand corrected. I shot from the hip and got burned. Upon more careful research I have discovered that it is in fact an original French 37mm Hotchkiss revolver cannon, not its German copy at all. The Germans used this type of gun from time to time as anti-aircraft weapons, but I am on shakier ground in claiming a close support role for them in the Imperial Army. However, 5cm and 6 cm (53 and 57mm) Gruson Werke single shot rigidly mounted quick firing fortress guns (these were similar to the Hotchkiss single shot weapons of the same period) are known to have been employed by them in a close support role for infantry and as trench guns, mounted on a wheeled carriage with a distinctive curved armored shield. The weapon in the photo was exactly the model used in the casemates overlooking the moats in the French S�r� de Rivi�res forts around Verdun, Toul etc... The legend in German at the top of the first photo indicates that it is a French Hotchkiss Revolver cannon in the Bois des Caures (near Verdun). This old gun was no doubt one of the many dragged out of the forts around Verdun and elsewhere by the French in an effort to bolster their gun line. It seems rather forlorn sitting out there in a blasted wood, probably abandoned by its crew (it must have been a beast to try to haul around the Verdun battlefields.) There is a photo in color of one of these weapons in St�phane Gaber's "La Lorraine Fortifi�: 1870-1940" �ditions Serpenoise, Metz, 1994. It matches exactly the weapon in the German photo.

Tim R · Hero

Here is another cool picture.

All the best

Tim R

Gspragge · Private

This is a French 40 mm Fortress Hotchkiss Revolving cannon. these were installed in fortresses and fired canister shot, the Germans captured a few of them in fortresses as they were imobile. This is an army gun and a few lingered on in service into ww2. I have other images of these if you require more, Gordon

Gspragge · Private

The gun you show looks like the Hotchkiss 37x120mm type. The French did not adopt it but used the 37x95 size revolving cannon ( 722 in the French Navy in 1914, they did not adopt the 37mm Maxim) The Army used the 40mm Fortress model which is the kind you see with Germans when they captured them. Single shot French Navy 37x94s were also used in the trenches before the 1916 cannon was issued.

Gspragge · Private

This is very unusual and does not look like the French mounting , but may be a French revolver remounted by the germans, The French shield is straight not curved. I will enquire.

JamesH · Major

The German caption on the first photo Tim has posted begins with Franz. - short for franzoesische, meaning French, so it presumably is French.

(Sorry, can't do umlauts on this PC.)

-- Edited by JamesH at 02:39, 2006-06-27

Lafettenheini · Colonel

Hi Eugene ,

�saw Your question about the hotchkiss 37mm , 1895 firsttime.

Here some pics -one from the naval museeum Washigton D.C.

Please rgard the drawings for the german-naval version .

I build this 1 :1� january 2008 . Have some "fitting " tubes. wink

Cheers
Gerd