Landships II

TeeELL · General

Mk 1 Tank - Grenade Canopy

d_fernetti · Hero

Good warning!
References for correcting the 1:76 scale Airfix kits (with bomb roof plans) are to be found here: http://home.hccnet.nl/h.van.oerle/mk1/mk1-con.htm

Note that individual tanks sported variations of the same basic bomb roof design.

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi,

Just thought I would post a few images of the grenade roof I started because of the Master Box Thread earlier. It unfortunately didn't progress much further due to so little clear information, but I'm happy with it for now.

I took on board the recommendations and made the wooden strengtheners into wedges to secure the supports. The side extensions I am unable to get a good clear photo of, so left them quite basic.

Oh and I tried out green as a colour as it was meant for the Army... I think it looks nice. :)

The mention of the long cross beams possibly being metal got me thinking, but for now I think wood is still correct. The main beams I made up of 2" square beams the cross beams 1/2" x 2". I tried 3" beams and it looked to bulky.�

Helen x

�

TeeELL · General

Nice Helen.

d_fernetti · Hero

Great work, as usual! These renderings are very helpful showing a structure which can't be clearly seen in most of the pictures.

TinCanTadpole · Legend

Drawings look good as usual, Helen. If I may make a further comment on the wedge supports, I'd say that I got the impression they were only half the length you currently have, and tapered to a proper point when the tank is viewed from ahead or behind.

MK1 Nut · Hero

TinCanTadpole wrote:
Drawings look good as usual, Helen. If I may make a further comment on the wedge supports, I'd say that I got the impression they were only half the length you currently have, and tapered to a proper point when the tank is viewed from ahead or behind.

�Thanks, I will alter the drawings later. Smaller makes sense, as someone has to be able to pick them up and adjust them at the same time as moving the canopy.

MK1 Nut · Hero

A little update....

I have no idea how the rear extension fits, so my best guess is metal straps onto the rear of the main structure, which would explain maybe why it moves around so much in the video. confuse �

�

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 12:00:16 PM

TeeELL · General

Helen,
I have built mine so that the centre beam(s) is longer than the outer beams thus the front V is angled forward and would bolt directly onto the rear of the main frames rather than leaving that gap. I think that would explain why the frame is more robust than your interpretation would suggest.

TinCanTadpole · Legend

I would agree with TeeELL, I think the spine of the rear section meets the spine of the main part, with the side beams shorter.

TeeELL · General

I offer my grenade canopy for your views. As previously mentioned I have constructed it with the assumption that it would bolt/attach directly to the rear of the main canopy. I've not identified the means by which it is supported but suspect something similar to the main canopy, after all, it is tough enough to support 2 crew members crawling on it to remove the tarpaulin.� (The white bar visible�under the rear of the main canopy is temporary and serves only to hold the canopy level.

TeeELL · General

Oh joy,
at last I have finally sorted out the steering tail and can put everything together for painting. For my second tank I plan to try the mod I've put on the separate thread re Steering Tail although I shall use an H section axle which I have already drilled.

TeeELL · General

Mmmmmmmm, think I posted my previous in the wrong place!!!

TeeELL · General

I have done some work on the grenade canopy in preparation for painting. A very revealing photo posted by Helen (to show something else) clearly indicated that the 'spine' of the extension was quite substantial (probably because 2 half frames were joined). As a consequence I had to add a bit more meat to my model. With the tank itself now complete, I shall drill out some .3 mm holes for the supports - I think 1:72 U bolts and wedges are just a bit out of my skill set biggrin .�

Having viewed an extended version of the video clip of the crew removing the tarp from the rear extension on their tank I am wondering about the attachment of that extension to the body of the tank.� Certainly it is a robust construction, obviously capable of supporting 2 crew members, but it appears to rely on the connection with the main canopy at the front and a single, central support at the rear; unfortunately that cannot be made out.� I must confess an inclination to provide twin support from the centre V cross members as per the main canopy; not least because 'mine' lines up with a hull top cross member (accident or careful measuring - I'll leave you to decide).

Once the canopy is in place I can start to produce the 'wings' for over the side sponsons and finally fit the netting.

TeeELL · General

First thing this morning I carefully drilled 6 holes in the appropriate V cross members. Careful measurement indicated that the holes should be 5.5mm from the outer edges. I used a .3 mm drill and the supports are made with .25mm carbon fibre rod, the slightly oversize hole allows sufficient lee way to position the rods before using a drop of liquid cement to secure. I used a spacer under the front cross member ( above the cab roof) and a piece of H section styrene strip to support the rear. When dry I will create the 'wings' over the gun sponsons, paint and attach my netting.
Having used styrene rod on my first attempt at a grenade canopy I am happy that the support rods will suffice both in strength and appearance.

TeeELL · General

I have completed the grenade roof supports and all seems to have worked. I did a pair at a time, feeding the rod through to touch the roof, checked all was square and then applied a generous blob of liquid cement. I allowed some 90 mins between each pair to ensure they were well and truly stuck.

TeeELL · General

I have produced the 2 extensions for the gun sponsons. I must measure the length and add the short supports that hold the canopy above the sponson roof. Photos will follow shortly.

TeeELL · General

It has taken me longer to produce the grenade canopy than the complete tank. You could be forgiven for succumbing to boredom waiting for me to complete this item. Well ..... here it is.

Paul Bonnett · Hero

Oh I Say!!! Very nice Sir !!! Which tracks will you use ? The Matador set seem to fit ok but are slightly undersize of course !
Paul

TeeELL · General

Paul, I have a couple of sets of Matador tracks but, as you say, they are narrow. I am probably going to use the MB units but my thoughts on weathering and adding mud should go some of the way to disguise their shortcomings. The 'Male' tank is not being blessed with the full canopy, it will be the standard unit with, perhaps, the side extensions - that appears to be the norm in various photos.

MRG · Major

I love this forum!

I have the feeling that all the research on the grenade canopy, the steering tail and so many other details - and not only on the Mark I - on behalf of us modellers here generates findings and conclusions of genuine value for the actual history of these machines.

Digging up details which might have been otherwise forgotten.

Great stuff - great builds!

With best regards,

Martin

TeeELL · General

Thank you Martin. I cannot deny that, when I made my original canopy for my Airfix Mk1 I did not realise that I would find myself becoming so immersed in these temporary devices when it came to the MB offering. You will know from earlier in this thread that my original findings were questioned, but that I was able to prove the validity of the rear extended canopy. It has been an interesting voyage and will give others the information to produce something similar.
The steering tail is a bit of a disappointment as both AIRFIX and MB have made similar errors with the rear axle. I cannot claim to have been wholly responsible for creating the modifications in the respective threads, Helen, in particular, has passed me significant amounts of information as have others.

TeeELL · General

Yesterday, whilst wandering around Portsmouth, killing time, I wandered into a fabric shop to try and find some material that would make convincing camouflage netting (the sort used to disguise ammo dumps/roads/tank laagers etc - indeed the sort seen in the TV series The Crimson Fields, to disguise the field hospital) and I was fortunate to find something that I think will do. What has this got to do with grenade canopies I hear you cry!!! Well, I enquirer about finer mesh material and was directed to some material that had a finer weave than that which I have used to date. The down side is that it is of square rather than hexagonal weave. I am not at home at present but will post some comparison pictures in a week. You can make you own minds up if you wish to go down that route (I may use it for one of the 4 grenade canopies I have to complete.

-- Edited by TeeELL on Saturday 12th of April 2014 10:51:19 AM

-- Edited by TeeELL on Saturday 12th of April 2014 10:54:13 AM

d_fernetti · Hero

Interesting... do you recall the name of that material? Perhaps I can find it here as well.

TeeELL · General

Diego,
It is a tulle material, whilst this is usually very fine, not unlike chiffon, the example I was guided too is at the coarse end and is an even mesh. I have it with me so I will try and take a photo and publish it for you. Trouble it, it is white so I will need to find a suitable back ground - I have my extended grenade canopy with me so I will do a comparison photo for you.

d_fernetti · Hero

Thanks! My grenade roofs are covered with tulle comandereed from a Snow White costume belonging to my daughter. It's so shabby and ill fitting that she never noticed that it lacks a piece of fabric from a fringe.

TeeELL · General

Sorry, got back to the accommodation late last night and it was too difficult to sort out a photo using the iPad so it will be next weekend-ish.

d_fernetti · Hero

No hurries! Thanks!

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

This film still photo provides a good view of a slightly damaged, early pattern grenade roof.

TeeELL · General

What an excellent photo, it answers something that has been at the back of my mind. That is: the side extensions on a male tank are not rectangular but shaped so as to provide better protection over the whole sponson. That's for sharing that photo, yet another that I've not seen previously.

MK1 Nut · Hero

Yes a really useful photo, thank you Rhomboid!

You have though made me more work.

Who knows, maybe one day Bovington may correct theirs. :)

d_fernetti · Hero

Whoa. That. Photo.
Sure it shows also that the wire mesh could be of the flimsy type as well (I doubt that this one might have stand a person walking over it)

TeeELL · General

Here is the new found material. On close inspection it is just about the same size as the original but, being diamond there is less enclosed area so giving the impression of being smaller. So it is an alternative. I have enough of the former to cover some 40+ tanks and twice the amount of the latter. Total cost probably barely makes it to £2.00!!

TeeELL · General

Rhomboid, does the film, from which your very helpful 'still' was taken - give any indication as to the name of the tank. I ask only to see if it might be an 'A' Company vehicle as it has the rear extended canopy.

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

The film clip can be seen at 2:50 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhtIDFMq56o

I couldn't make out a name or number, but I suspect that this was a C Company tank, given the early pattern grenade roof and the style of camo seen on the sponsons.

TeeELL · General

That's great, thanks. I realised earlier that, back then, the subject had to come to the camera so I considered my hoped for information would not be forthcoming. I do have one question though- what is the small white object with the circular windows that is in front of the commanders hatch?

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

Just guessing, but I think it might be a portable kerosene lamp. This is a 1915 Powell and Hamner Birmingham 515 British Army railroad lamp.

-- Edited by Rhomboid on Monday 21st of April 2014 07:52:32 AM

TeeELL · General

I suspected it might be something like that, it just appears a little incongruous. That said, the original 'headlights' are relatively vulnerable. We had better stop or this thread is going to turn into a discussion on tank lighting! Lol

d_fernetti · Hero

Hey TeeELL! Thanks for the pictures of the mesh. I'll have this in mind on a visit to the local haberdashery. Hope not to have to buy enough material to cover 300 1:76 tanks...

TeeELL · General

I am working on the dimensions of the canopy to fit an AIRFIX tank. The plan will include the rear extension (as per A Company tanks) and the sponson extensions. I hope to sort out the details fairly soon although 'stuff' is getting in the way. Of which learning Spanish - well Latin American Spanish - is one of them. Hasta luego!