Landships II

MK1 Nut · Hero

First Look at Takom's 1/35th MK1 Male Tank

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

Helen! What a great news!
Many thanks.
I can't wait to order her in Hong Kong long before they reach Italy. You can't belive me but I'm waiting these kits since I was 14 years old and now I am 49!
In my opinion another very interesting news is the presence of so many Mk IV's hull parts so it became easier to built a Mk II without crossing two kits (Mk I + Mk IV).
Very easy to obtain a Supply: only four new plates on sponsons and a new rear bin

From these kits:

Mk I Male
Mk I Female
Mk I Supply
Mk II Male
Mk II Female

Lot of works incoming.

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

Unfortunatly the small drive vison flap is still solid to the main hatch. What a pity.
What about the left drive cab side wall? The pistol posrt seems to lack the bottom stop I can see on the right side.
Some work to make the rear tail wheels steering.

MK1 Nut · Hero

The inclusion of the MKIV parts would certainly make the MKII conversion easier, I didn't make the connection looking at the kit parts. Yes you're going to busy alright! :)

The kit is great, with only small alterations needed to make it as accurate as you'll ever get without owning the real thing.

Things to change are as follows...

The Front Sprocket. They have it smooth, which is ok for the Gaza Tanks but not those used in their first outing on the Somme. When first used the Front Sprocket was toothed, as it was just the Drive Sprocket but left to free spin at the front. This apparently caused additional wear to the Track so they removed the teeth and from then on in the were smooth.

The next part I am not sure what to call them so I will go with Track Guides. On the Mk1 Tanks they were made up of two parts, the flat plate and a bit of L Beam. These were bolted together which is why they have extra bolts than shown on the Kit and for that matter Bovington's MK1 surviver. From MKIIs onwards they were cast in one piece so didn't have the extra bolts. This is the type produced in the kit.

Side Bolts is next, as there is a different pattern Right to Left hand sides. Only a few but might as well get them right.

Last thing for now is to do with the really good Tail Assembly on this kit. Best I've seen yet!

There is a flat plate bolted to the underside to protect the pulley wheels from knocks. They have it all the way across, it should only extend as far as the inner beams.

Ok Last thing... Plus One! :) The camouflage shown is pretty good but the Grey should be Light Grey and the Cream more an off white/ cream colour. The Black lines were not on all the Tanks, also they didn't always surround each individual colour. It seems they also painted over with extra patches of colour on some of them, hiding a lot of the black lining.

Think that's it! confuse smile

Helen x

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 02:03:25 AM

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

It looks to be something wrong in drive cab width.
Look at the space between track and inner part of drive cab in this picture of MkIV sprue

3.bp.blogspot.com/-LV2q8NRgrAs/VkklqtcSrSI/AAAAAAABp-s/85lJPHmpBrk/s1600/Takom%2B2031%2BMk.%2BI%2BMale%2BWWI%2BHeavy%2BBattle%2BTank%2B-%2B%2Bpic%2B08.JPG

and this from Mk I

3.bp.blogspot.com/-yGKL8PzAJ0k/VkklJcrybEI/AAAAAAABp9s/J37zFIJJLIY/s1600/Takom%2B2031%2BMk.%2BI%2BMale%2BWWI%2BHeavy%2BBattle%2BTank%2B-%2B%2Bpic%2B15.JPG

The space seems to be the same but, af far as I know, Mk I cab was larger so there was non such enought space between track and cab. They were very close and as Helen reported sometimes tracks hit side cab armour.
It looks like they took their MKIV upper plate and modify to obtain the MK I.

MK1 Nut · Hero

Now feeling embarrassed! How did I miss that. The Cab is going to need altering. Damn!!!!

Ok just had another look and one of the Gaza Tanks had it's rounded corners cut square, but it was as far as I know a one off. Although now I've seen it I think I will look in to it a bit more.

Having said that, the kit's Cab is to narrow.

Attached a photo of how it should look and the one off Gaza Tank.

thorst · Colonel

This will be a tough correction, in relation to what was wrong on the Mark IV. The Cab front, top and back need to be redone with all the rivets and details. Not impossible, but also not funny.

I also don't like the addition of the sponson wagon instead of the grenade shield in the male kit. Building the model without a sponson is impossible as-is because of the lack of interior detail, but the most famous Mark I pictures show males with the grenade shield.

As euphoric as I was when the kits were announced, now I am kind of glad that I didn't preorder one...

Thorsten

Lothianman · Colonel

Dick Harley points out to me, and I pass it on with his permission, that - at least as the kit is moulded in the photographs (and barring any modifications before it is issued) - Takom have simply grafted new, longer, barrels onto the breeches and recoil systems of the short L/23 gun as moulded for the Mark IV. The long 6-pounders on the Mark I had a different recoil system with two buffers and two recuperators mounted alongside and under the gun. One can see this on pages 55 and 58 of the Haynes Guide where they printed the wrong diagrams for a Mark IV's 6-pounder mountings.

There are also differences in the ammunition stowage arrangements in the sponson, under the gun mounting, between the I and IV, I believe, but I am not sure how the kit measures up here.

Of course, in practical modelling terms it usually doesn't matter as the breech is not visible externally. And as Thorst says one has bigger problems, like filling the interior, if one builds the kit without a sponson and with the hole uncovered. But it's worth keeping an eye on that point as well as the other very useful comments here.

The trolley needn't be wasted or set aside as it can for instance carry a couple of Mark III Female sponsons modified from those in the Takom kits (e.g. from a model of a sponsonless tank, or from the "hermaphrodite" boxing). Plus whatever comes up in the future.

Helen, when you mention track guides, please, are they the things under the top run of the track, and so not visible in a normal build?

-- Edited by Lothianman on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 05:21:04 PM

-- Edited by Lothianman on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 05:30:22 PM

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hiya, By Track Guides I mean the removable plates at the bottom of the front and rear horns. As far as I can work out they are removable so that as the leading edge to the runners that stop the Track sagging, they can be replaced with ease. Also once removed I would guess they give better access to Track Joining Pins to make maintenance and replacement of the track easire.

This is the correct versions with the extra bolts as used only on the MK1s.

Lothianman · Colonel

Ah, thanks!

MK1 Nut · Hero

One way around the issue of Sponsons being off with no interior is this photo...

It shows a wooden beam bolted to the sides and store piled up inside. :)

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

MK1 Nut wrote:
...
Ok just had another look and one of the Gaza Tanks had it's rounded corners cut square, but it was as far as I know a one off. Although now I've seen it I think I will look in to it a bit more.
...

May be one of the Mk IVs send to Gaza and not a Mk I?

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

Coming back home from business I start this quick 3D model of the larger cab starting from a Takom MkIV cab and upper hull plate
I am planning to make a 3D printable model but I wait the kit to have right dimension.

An email to Takom may be a good idea to warn them from mistakes they did.

-- Edited by Pierantonio on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 08:03:03 PM

MK1 Nut · Hero

Contacted Takom, pointed them towards this thread... got a Thank You.

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

Well done, Helen.
I hope something will happen.

BC312 · Colonel

Would love to see these kits in 1/15 scale same scale as the FTs. I am finding 1/35 scale models too fiddly in my own age to construct, have emailed Takom which they are considering. If you like big stuff then email them.

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

Looking at the old CAD images I note the narrower cab was present from the beginning.

With a narrow cab we have another problem.

Look on the original tank how close to the cab edge the anti-granade screen frame was.

If the model maintains the some distance, when you enlarge the cab its edge may collide to the leaning frame profiles. Since the distance between screen side frame and tracks is fixed, the only solution is to change the frame profile rising the central section and making the other part more leaning.

This means longer profile and a larger PE screen part.

-- Edited by Pierantonio on Sunday 22nd of November 2015 09:18:01 AM

thorst · Colonel

I guess we have to wait for the first build reviews to get better details of the kit. The grenade shield problem may be solved by a few tricks, but it all depends on the exact shape of the kit parts.

But I really wonder why the male version doesn't provide the grenade shield.

Alpha Six · Lieutenant-Colonel

Note, please, that the net frame should be extended over the sponsons. I wrote about this to Takom during design time, but they did not change anything.
Also, Clan Leslie net is wider and longer then frame. Therefore, I believe that in any case, the frame and the net must be scratchbuilded done again.
Forgive me for bad English, but I hope that wrote understandable.

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

I'm afraid is too late for any changing because both kit are just for sale at Hobby Link Japan

www.hlj.com/product/TKO2031/Mil

www.hlj.com/product/TKO2033/Mil

and the main Italian dealer states them as "coming soon" (usually that means they will arrive in late dicember, usually just before Christmas)

The paradox is that the narrow cab makes easier to convert this kit to a Mk II then built a Mk I!
A nice idea would be an additional sprue with correct cab partes sold as an aftermarket part as AFV did with its wrong M24 Chaffe turret in the earlier model.
Ok we have to pay more to have a correct model but it's better then a scratchbuilding (but the AFV new turret was only 2 euros).

-- Edited by Pierantonio on Monday 23rd of November 2015 06:58:05 AM

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

New pictures of Female tank in their FB page

www.facebook.com/TAKOM-354803674728188/

Still narrow cab and wrong net frame as reported by Alpha Six.

Note also rear trail can be fix only in lowered position with wheels pointing forward. I think they mold as a solid part what was something like a leather protection of steering gear so wheels can not steer.

MK1 Nut · Hero

Unfortunately the latest photos add a few more alterations. Again nothing major, just annoying.

On the side of the Cab top right corner they have a rivet as per the MKII, on a MK1 it is a Bolt.

On the front top angled face they have rivets once more instead of bolts. This time the six that holt the steering wheel mechanism in place. Also on the same face at the bottom left and right there is a bolt missing.

Helen x

MK1 Nut · Hero

Pierantonio wrote:
New pictures of Female tank in their FB page

www.facebook.com/TAKOM-354803674728188/

Still narrow cab and wrong net frame as reported by Alpha Six.

Note also rear trail can be fix only in lowered position with wheels pointing forward. I think they mold as a solid part what was something like a leather protection of steering gear so wheels can not steer.

The Frame is OK as not all of the Tanks had the side extensions over the Sponsons. Some had an extension making it full length to the back. I think only one Company actually fitted them, but not sure on that. We had a discussion about it here. Grenade Roof

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

The Italian dealer has both kit from today. Order send. Hope I will have them before weekend or at least at the beginning of next week.
Pictures as soon as I will have both.

Alpha Six · Lieutenant-Colonel

MK1 Nut wrote:
The Frame is OK as not all of the Tanks had the side extensions over the Sponsons. Some had an extension making it full length to the back. I think only one Company actually fitted them, but not sure on that. We had a discussion about it here. Grenade Roof

Hello Helen!

Thank you for the clarification. I've never seen the photos of the Mk.I tank without side frame extension over sponsons. However, Clan Leslie must be and with the net and with the extension. That is, it is in any case, the error of Male set.

Also, I can not remember a photo that frame and the net would be shorter than the roof of the cab.

-- Edited by Alpha Six on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 11:01:46 AM

MK1 Nut · Hero

If this was a WW2 Tiger Tank they would be put against a wall and shot!

The annoying thing is that as no one else seems to be bothering in 1/35 WW1 Tanks to any degree, we have to be thankful for what we get.

Yes the the Frame should be level with the front of the cab not the back. Also there's a rivet missing above the drivers viewing flap for what reason i don't know. There's also a little bracket on the roof, top right... no idea what it is doing there. Grrrr

Oh and the track is the wrong way round... but that is just a builders error.

OK just looked again and I'm pretty sure the Grenade Roof is just another builders error. It would appear they have stuck the ends on the wrong way round and then made it worse by positioning it to far back. The positioning being wrong is going to be due to the mounting brackets being out of place as the top is flipped round 360% from where it should be.

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 11:24:08 AM

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 11:50:09 AM

thorst · Colonel

I hope that they do the same to the Mark I kit as they did with the Mark IV: Take the criticism into account, make corrections and then offer a Hermaphrodite boxing with parts for both versions, including the grenade shield. This time I will wait for this to happen

Granty101 · Colonel

MK1 Nut wrote:
If this was a WW2 Tiger Tank they would be put against a wall and shot!
The annoying thing is that as no one else seems to be bothering in 1/35 WW1 Tanks to any degree, we have to be thankful for what we get.

Surely Helen, in this day and age, with the amount of data/plans/photographs popping up on the internet, and with researchers like yourself sharing information, you would think model companies could get it right!!! Plus it's the 100th anniversary of The Great War, so surely they must see a potential in making kits people are interested in??

I model in 1/76th - 1/72nd, and we braille scalers haven't even got a decent Rolls Royce armoured car in plastic!!!

If you're reading this Mr. Airfix/Emhar/Dragon/S-Model, I'd like the following in small scale plastic!!

1: 1914 Rolls Royce Armoured Car

2: Saint Chamond French tank (any mark/model will do)

3: Schneider French tank (any mark/model will do)

Thank you Masterbox for the Austins and MkI & II tanks...but I hope you're planning more kits soon?

Grant

P.S. Off my soapbox and rant over!!!

-- Edited by Granty101 on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 04:08:50 PM

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

thorst wrote:
I hope that they do the same to the Mark I kit as they did with the Mark IV: Take the criticism into account, make corrections and then offer a Hermaphrodite boxing with parts for both versions, including the grenade shield. This time I will wait for this to happen

The only correction they made is adding the pistol port on the roof side to the observation hatch. That kit is not more then a normal Mk IV with both Male and Female sponsons' sprue but with only one metal barrel (the box reports TWO!). I am building one after both male and female and there is no difference.

The only nice addiction is the one-click tracks.

Still I think Hermaphrodite is a bargain because you can choice version you prefear (one barrel is easy to reproduce), get many parts for the scrapebox and it is even a little cheaper then the normal version.

On the other side Takom is making some big mistake in their WWI models. See for exaple at the wrong gun carriage of their 210 German howitzer

-- Edited by Pierantonio on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 09:34:27 PM

thorst · Colonel

At least they did do the pistol port correction, which was the only major error on their Mark IV. The rivets on the front were very easy to fix. The tracks were the main point for critics, and they did replace them on the hermaphrodite boxing. If I were to build another Mark IV, I'd get one of these.

I don't know about errors in other kits. Do you have a link regarding the howitzer?

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

In my opinion the major error they didn't fix anywhere was the wrong dimension of observation hatch.
Remember also the lack of water filler cap (either envelope or tubolar radiator).

Links to howitzer

landships.activeboard.com/t61159777/model-1016-german-howitzer/

thorst · Colonel

I found the observation hatch to be a very simple correction, just adding a strip of styrene on every side and file in the notch. The filler cap is also not a big problem, and its lack may be an advantage if you want to build a tank with envelope radiator, as its easier to drill the hole than to get it properly closed. Sure, it's an error, but I'd be happy if every kit had only so minor things (I am not looking forward to do the said corrections on the Mark I kit!).

But sorry, back to topic again!

compound eye · Colonel

Odd about that missing cab front rivet...

If you check the unbox photos on 1999.co.jp, it is there. Presumably the Takom photos are of the pre-prod prototype build. I know from being friends with a chap from Tamiya, that things are often spotted and fixed at that stage.

However, with WWI being out of all living memory and something of a 'black art' in terms of knowledge, the oriental layman should probably not be considered too harshly for making some assumptions re cab width, even though that will be an absolute cock to scratch properly in 1/35.

You can bet MR Modelbau will be on the case with a full width cab some time in the next 5 mins.

All the same, I wonder if Takom just worked off plans / photos, or visited Bovvy and made poor choices based on the conveniently parked up Mk.II supply / female restoration, over the awkwardly trench worrying Mk.I Male way up in the gods as you enter the WWI exhibit.

Anyway, 1999.co.jp - www.1999.co.jp/eng/10349805

Nailcreek · Captain

Interesting thread ... I'm quite tempted to get the kit - which is starting to show up on Ebay - however, will they make the corrections to the kit, so it's better to hold off?

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

To have a correct cab we need only three parts (front, upper and rear cab plates) so I hope they will correct them or/and sell an additional sprue with corrects parts as AVF did with their early M24 Chaffee turret.
New parts are very easy to obtain since they need only to streach their CAD model 3mm on each side.

Of course a new AM cab will be welcome.

The real problem is that nobody knows if that will happen and when.

PS: now their Mk I with the narrow cab is a really good start point to model a MK II

-- Edited by Pierantonio on Saturday 28th of November 2015 11:03:34 PM

Nailcreek · Captain

I recall hearing that Master Box was thinking of coming out with the Mark I in 1/35th - has there been any further news about it?

MK1 Nut · Hero

I've not heard a word since their MK1 kit in 1/72. I did ask them to get in touch if they decided to go ahead with a 1/35 scale version.

Nailcreek · Captain

Hi Helen ... I did as well. They did suggest that if that was their plan, they would likely announce a 2016 release date.

Paul Bonnett · Hero

When these two marks were first announced I got really excited, Thinking that September 2016 would be a possible release date, to mark many aspects of this pairs claim to fame. Due in part to ill health I have not been around the forum much of late, and I now find that pressure to get the kits "out there" has allowed some mistakes to creep in. I'm still excited because I never thought I would see a Mk1 in 1/35 and in plastic too boot. The early 1/35 scale kits were great but boy oh boy look at them now for detail. I'll buy these and just hope I get to buy the next generation kits too. Enjoy your modelling guys......... I know I do

Pierantonio · Lieutenant-Colonel

Get both kits this evening.
Female has three color schemes but decals only for the well famous WE 'RE ALL IN IT. The others have no insigna at all.
Trail steering system is very simplified and you can build the trail only in lowered position.
In my opinion ome parts need replace due their thickness but it isn't and hard work because they are all plain plate.
Apart from the drive cab it is a good start point for a nice model.
At least now we have a Mk I!!