Landships II

Massimo Foti · Colonel

Copenhagen. Tøjhusmuseet

CharlieC · Legend

The mortar bears some similarity to the 9.45" Flying Pig mortar which was based on the French 240mm Dumezil-Batignolles mortar. 380mm seems unlikely as the calibre - that would be a massive piece of equipment.

The small 1889 gun wasn't built by de Bange - it just says it uses the de Bange breech system. It looks like an 80mm (or so) small fortress gun - perhaps the guys over at http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/ may be able to help.

Regards,

Charlie

Massimo Foti · Colonel

The 380 mm caliber is, most likely, correct, it is indeed a massive piece

Massimo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

The Museum identify these as: 37 mm Gruson M 1890

The gun is indeed smaller than the 57 mm I've seen used on similar turrets

Massimo Foti · Colonel

37 mm revolverkanon M 1871

75 mm 1897

Barbanente · Major

Hi

The cannon to the left of your last photo is a Krupp ??

From what model ??

What you can see of your carriage is similar to that of the Krupp of 75mm Mod.1889 Argentino, or to the Krupp of 75mm Mod. M / 98 Chilean

Regards

Eduardo

Barbanente · Major

Forgive me, I meant Krupp of 75 mm Mod.1898 Argentino

Eduardo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

It's a classic Canon de 75 modèle 1897:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_mod%C3%A8le_1897

Massimo

Barbanente · Major

Hi

I think not because if you see well, this cannon has over-carriage so you can aim in direction without moving your carrige

The Krupp 1897 used rigid mounting.

Regards

Eduardo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

To what gun are you referring? I am talking about the light grey gun, I can tell for sure it's a Canon de 75 modèle 1897, there is absolutely no doubt about it.
There are other 75 mm guns to the left and right of it. I will post dedicated pictures of them within a couple of days.

Massimo

Barbanente · Major

Hi

I did not explain myself correctly

As the image surpasses the word, I borrow your photo and frame on it with a red circle on the cannon to which I mean

Regards

Eduardo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

I see now! Sorry for misunderstanding. Yes, it's a Krupp, I will post a dedicated picture soon

Massimo

Barbanente · Major

Hi

With respect to the small 1889 gun

From 1882 to 1889, De Bange was Director of the Cail Manufacturing Corporation:

Société Anonyme des Anciens Etablissements Cail- Paris

This plants they produced steel, cannons and railway material

Regards

Eduardo

Barbanente · Major

Hi

I was looking for information, and I found that De Bange guns were manufactured in different French factories. The most known were

· - Schneider-Creusot

· - Manufacture d'armes de Puteaux

· - Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (Nantes)

· - Ets Sturmlinger (le Havre)

· - Anciens Etablissements Cail- París

It seems that there was no real a "Factory DeBange".

Regards

Eduardo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

75 mm Krupp 1895:

75 mm Krupp 1903:

CharlieC · Legend

Barbanente wrote:
Hi
.....
It seems that there was no real a "Factory DeBange".

Regards
Eduardo

Colonel de Bange developed his breech system in 1872 and became director of the Atelier-de-précision (part of the Central Depot in Paris) in 1873. He developed a series

of artillery pieces in this position until 1881. He retired from the Army and became director of the Cail Manufacturing Company from 1882 to 1889. His designs were property of the French state and were built by various arsenals and private companies.

Regards,

Charlie

Barbanente · Major

Massimo Foti escribio:
75 mm Krupp 1895:

Hi

Thank you for your explanation and confirmation of the De Bange guns.

Regarding the photo of Copenhagen. Tøjhusmuseet

As I imagined, the Krupp of 75mm M / 98 Chilean and Krupp of 75mm Mod.1898 Argentine are developments of this Krupp of 75mm Mod 1895, and use the same design of carriage with minor modifications. The biggest difference between these three Krupp models is the breech block.

For its caliber must be a specifically export model. Besides, the differences with the 7.7cm Feldkanone C / 96 (FK 96 a / A) are great, especially in your carriage, which uses another design.

What is clear is that with this type of carriage it is physically impossible to carry out the modification that Mr. Brunner proposes when he says:

….”The Krupp mod. 1905 was actually a modified Krup 1898 refitted with shield,hydraulic brakes etc. in Argentine Arsenals”…..

It is clear that there is no place to add this system

In the Krupp 75mm Mod.1898 would not enter this hydraulic recoil, would hit with the same carriage and with the mechanisms of movements for the aim.

Regards

Eduardo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

A Danish 190 mm 1898:

Steen Winther · Corporal

Hello Massimo,
I love the quality of your photos from Tøjhusmuseet. May I ask what camera you use?
Cheers,
Steen

Massimo Foti · Colonel

Hi Steen,

I own two different camera systems, a huge Canon 5D Mk III with a pretty large selection of lenses is usually the one I use. It's great, but it's also heavy and bulky, my typical backpack with the Canon gear weights between 8 and 12 kg.
A couple of years ago I realized I wanted something smaller and lighter, something I would carry even whenever taking pictures is not my main priority. So I bought an Olympus E-M 1 plus a 12-40 f/2.8 lens.

I traveled to Copenhagen together with my family, so I only took the Olympus camera with me. The Canon performs better overall, especially in low light, but tralling light was my priority this time, so I only took the Olympus.

You may see a good selection of my pictures on Flickr, most were taken with the Canon, some with Olympus. The exif data are all visible and provide additional details:
www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/albums/

Hope this will help, please feel free to ask for additional info whenever you see fit.

Massimo

Massimo Foti · Colonel

Here you can see the two cameras side by side, with similar lenses, and get a better idea:
camerasize.com/compact/

Massimo

kkfj1 · Major

Thank you for these very interesting information on Anciens Etablissements Cail. In the artillery museum of my city there is a 37mm Cail gun from 10 years later(please see the photos).

As for the Gruson 37mm - I believe the famous Russian 37mm Rosenberg infantry guns utilized barrels from these old Gruson guns. Rosenberg guns served with Chinese army were always called "Gruson infantry guns".

clausitpay · Private

Hi Massimo,

The gun, which Tøjhusmuseet, Copenhagen, Denmark, incorrectly has identified as: 37 mm Gruson M 1890, is actually a 53 mm quick-firing steel cannon of model 1890 in a mobile turret of model 1890.
The Danish designation was: 53 mm h.S.K. M. 1890 in 53 mm transportabelt Taarn M. 1890.
Four pieces were received from Grusonwerk AG Buckau in Magdeburg-Buckau, Germany, in 1890 for use in Copenhagen Fortress, two for Dæmningsbatteri II and two for Dæmningsbatteri III, both batteries was built in 1887-1888 and decommissioned in 1920.
Two more pieces were received from Grusonwerk AG Buckau in Magdeburg-Buckau, Germany, in 1892 for use in Copenhagen Fortress. They were installed in Garderhøjfortet in permanent turrets. That fort was built in 1886-1892 and decommissioned in 1920. The Danish designation for those two cannons was: 53 mm h.S.K. M. 1890 in 53 mm Taarn M. 1892.

Yours

clausitpay

clausitpay · Private

Hi Massimo,

attached You will find some plans and pictures of the afore mentioned cannon 53 mm h.S.K. M. 1890 in 53 mm transportabelt Taarn M. 1890.

Yours

clausitpay

Massimo Foti · Colonel

Thank you for the info!

Massimo

Hhdd661944 · Private

The Gruson 'Fahrpanzer' was produced in several versions. The most common one was indeed armed with a 57mm quick firer, but there was also a 37mm armed version, which I believe is the one pictured here

ian

Brunner88 · Colonel

As ussual, Massimo ,GREAT PHOTOS! Somewhere in my files I have a pic of a Chilean 57 mm in a Grusson turret-they were part of 30 acquired iin 1895. They could be transported on a horse cart..

Cheers

Gunther

vollketten · Lieutenant-Colonel

Massimo,
It seems your 380mm mortar in the first post might be the WW2, Rheinmetall-Borsig made Raketenabschussgerat (RaG43) rocket launcher. Hope this helps.

Markings on it apparently are ‘bwo 38cm R.ag.M43 Nr.10’

-- Edited by vollketten on Monday 8th of April 2019 10:34:04 PM

Steen Winther · Corporal

My artistic eye tells me that the 37 mm Gruson M 1890 indeed is a 37 mm gun. The calibre looks similar to the multibarreled 37 mm revolverkanon also pictured in this thread, whereas the 57 mm gun is much heavier. Someone in Copenhagen with a ruler can easily verify this

PFJN · Corporal

Massimo Foti wrote:
...

Hi,

For a second I thought that this one might be an early model "Doctor Who" Dalek doh

Dr.WhoDalek.JPG

clausitpay · Private

to Massimo and Steen Winther and whom it may concern,

I've already been there armed with a ruler, and Steen Winthers artistic eye have not betrayed him smile

It is actually a 37 mm cannon. In a guide to Tøjhusmuseet (The Royal Danish Arsenal Museum) from 1948 it's described as "no. 789. 37 mm Cartridge-Cannon in Transportable Turret, cast at Grusonwerk in Magdeburg in 1887. The gun with its turret is horse-drawn as field-guns."

The fact that this cannon is not mentioned in contemporary regulations for the Danish Army (neither the Field-, garrison- or coast-artillery) confused me, nor have I been able to find any evidence for its use in Copenhagen Fortress.

My best guess is that this cannon was acquired from Grusonwerk for testing purpose.

Yours

clausitpay