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Tim R


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French Mortar question
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I am looking for information, name etc. of this particular French Mortar {mortar in question has one soldier attending}, it resembles slightly the Canon D'Accompagnement De 85 mm 1918 on page 65 of Le Canons de la Victoire 1914-1918.

All help would be greatly appreciated.

All the Best

Tim R



-- Edited by Tim R on Monday 28th of October 2019 03:45:55 PM



-- Edited by Tim R on Monday 28th of October 2019 03:47:29 PM

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Tim R


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After a little investigating, I believe this mortar to be an early version of the Archer De 85mm 1915 , or a simple derivative.  Any other help would be greatly appreciated.

All the best

Tim R.



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Ironsides


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Tim See "Cours d Artillerie de Tranchee" 1917 pg35

wink



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CharlieC


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The text of "Les Canons de la Victoire" says that the prototype 85mm Archer mortar was presented

in 1915 but rejected by the Army. The original mortar had a bronze barrel which would have made it

expensive compared to steel barreled mortars. Three years later after a political campaign 2000 were

ordered but only 78 delivered before the Armistice. The right hand image would appear to be the prototype and the 

left hand image one of the production mortars.

"Cours d'Artillerie de Tranchee" says there was also a 130mm Archer mortar but there's no detail on that one.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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James H


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https://www.groupe-hommell.com/tag/canon-archer/



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Ironsides


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Not sure if you know but there is at least one Archer Manual on Gallica, its the manufacturers manual for the 1918 model, but also supplied this pic with at least two different sized versions of the archer mortar unfortunatly no obvious scale and the pic is quite poor, it seems that this manual may be the source for the first pic (2 crew) as well:

 

Archer Tractor.jpg

Edit I'm assuming that the larger version is the 130mm which may give some scale as there are measurements given after a fashion for both the 85mm prototype and the 1918 model in the various contemporary publications.

wink




-- Edited by Ironsides on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 11:55:29 AM



-- Edited by Ironsides on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 11:57:24 AM

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CharlieC


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That document certainly isn't an official manual. The author (Archer) goes off into lala land about how his mortar is superior to all others

and can dish out more destruction than 155mm C howitzers. I can see with that level of hyperbole and bullshit how Archer managed to

get the politicians of the time to authorise production.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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Ironsides


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It appears that he didnt, only about 2-300 of the 2000 weapons ordered reached the front (or were produced) late in 1918, Archer himself appears to have been a civil engineer in the reserve and inter departmental rivalries (or disagreements) seems to have put the kybosh on it...

It appears to have been trialled in 1917 so may be the reason why it appears in the trench mortar book in 1917.

A short history of events involving Archer by General Percin 1921 who seems to have been involved in some fashion: Le massacre de notre infanterie, 1914-1918

 

wink

 



-- Edited by Ironsides on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 11:51:19 AM

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CharlieC


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Gen Guy François says only 78 were built and "Cours d'Artillerie de Tranchee" gives an inventory

on 11 Nov 1918 as 74 at the front and 4 held in reserve.

I'll have to translate that section of Gen Percin's work - it's written quite densely (or rather too dense for my French reading skills) but it looks interesting.

There's nothing like a good scandal and the French senior officers seem to have been extremely skilled in sinking

the boot into their rivals.

Regards,

Charlie



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Ironsides


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CharlieC wrote:

 

Gen Guy François says only 78 were built and "Cours d'Artillerie de Tranchee" gives an inventory

on 11 Nov 1918 as 74 at the front and 4 held in reserve.

I'll have to translate that section of Gen Percin's work - it's written quite densely (or rather too dense for my French reading skills) but it looks interesting.

There's nothing like a good scandal and the French senior officers seem to have been extremely skilled in sinking

the boot into their rivals.

Regards,

Charlie

You dont say smile, this seems to be a continuing theme in French military acquisitions....

The 1918 "Cours d'Artillerie de Tranchee"claims theres a 105mm version on pg45, the main advantage for the type appears to be its ability to adapt any type of standard round as a warhead.

Charlie what version of "Cours d'Artillerie de Tranchee" are you referring to i know of three version 17/18/22 but there may be others...

wink




-- Edited by Ironsides on Tuesday 29th of October 2019 12:32:45 PM

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