Landships II

Alter Fritz (on the Axis History website)

-- Edited by Centurion at 16:14, 2006-10-11

Here you go

The text accompaning the picture identifies Ernst Volckheim as commander of Alter Fritz! and the tank as Alter Fritz If the first is correct then the second ought to be. You say Alter Fritz is "supposed to be" - how concrete is the evidence or are we all diving into another murky pool here? 

The list produced by the Polish armour expert Witold J. Lawrynowicz is therefore incorrect? Do you have a correct version?

501 "Gretchen" scrapped by the Allies in 1919.
502 Scrapped by Germans in October 1918.
503 Scrapped by Germans in October 1918.
504 "Schnuck" lost at Fremicourt 08/31/1918.
505 Baden 1 scraped by the Allies in 1919.
506 Mephisto lost at Villers-Bretonneux 04/24/1918, recovered by Australians, now in Queensland Museum in Brisbane, Australia.
507 "Cyklop" scraped by the Allies in 1919.
525 "Siegfried" scraped by the Allies in 1919.
526 Scrapped by Germans in 06/1/1918.
527 "Lotti" lost at Pompelle Fort 06/01/1918.
528 "Hagen" lost at Fremicourt 08/31/1918.
529 "Nixe 2" lost at Remis 05/31/1918, recovered by Americans and scraped at Aberdeen Proving Grounds Museum in 1942.
540 "Heiland" scraped by the Allies in 1919.
541 Scrapped by the Allies in 1919.
542 "Elfride" lost at Villers-Bretonneux 04/24/1918
543 "Hagen", "Adalbert", "Konig Wilhelm" scraped by the Allies in 1919.
560 "Alter Fritz" lost at Iwuy 10/11/1918.
561 "Nixe" scrapped by Germans 04/24/1918.
562 "Herkules" scrapped by Germans after 08/31/1918.
563 "Wotan" scrapped by the Allies in 1919.
564 Scrapped by the Allies in 1919.

501 - in service until armistice
502 - uncertain, may have been no tank at all
503 - in service until armistice
504 - abandoned August 31st, 1918, scrapped in London 1920, gun at IWM
505 - in service until armistice*
506 - abandoned April 24th, 1918, on display in Brisbane/Australia
507 - in service until armistice*
525 - in service until armistice
526 - damaged June 1st, 1918, not used in combat again
527 - hit by artillery June 1st, 1918, scrapped by French in 1920/21
528 - abandoned August 31st, 1918, allegedly last on display in Edinburgh/Scotland
529 - hit by artillery May 31st, 1918, scrapped at APG, Maryland, in 1942
540 - left behind in October 1918, British capture, scrapped in France 1918/19
541 - in service until armistice
542 - toppled April 24th, 1918, captured and tested, scrapped by French in 1919
543 - in service until armistice
560 - blown up October 11th, 1918
561 - blown up April 24/25th, 1918
562 - left behind in October 1918, British capture
563 - in service until armistice
564 - in service until armistice

* = one of these two may have been sent to Berlin for repairs in October 1918 - and became "Imperator" in Kokampf's service.

"in service until armistice" = candidate for either being sabotaged by the leaving Germans or for scrapping ordered by French occupation forces

Using names may be misleading, most tanks carried names only temporarily.

For all I know, Abt.1 used names for a short period only (mid-April to mid-May 1918). When 527 was lost on June 1st, the former name "Lotti", had already been overpainted - but became visible again while the tank lay east of Reims until 1920/21.
The only Abteilung that used names throughout was 2, thus:
504 "Schnuck"
525 "Siegfried"
542 "Elfriede", 563 "Wotan"
543 "Bulle", 528 "Hagen"
561 "Nixe", 529 "Nixe II", 562 "Herkules"

mad zeppelin wrote:

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   had already been overpainted - but became visible again

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I've noted that with some photos of the same Beutepanzer taken at about the same time but with different film emulsions the name can be effectively invisible on one shot and readable on another. Obviously the name and its background paint produce near identical tones on one film stock but not the other. The same effect could be at work on some shots of A7Vs

First one is ??? Second one is 561. Third picture is ???. Four is 525. Five is 563. Last one shows 503, 505 and 543.

The numbers were chassis numbers. which somehow complicates things because what we can see is the armoured hull, not the chassis. But change of chassis did - as far as we know - not happen frequently. Often, the chassis numbers were also painted on the hull. In most cases on the inside of the doors, but Abt.1 also carried them in large form on the armour plate in early April 1918.
Abt. 1 apparently only carried names for a short period (April 1918 - at Villers-Bretonneux). On 21st March 1918 they did not use names. Abt. 1 used skull and crossbones on the front armour below the gun. On 21st March in provisional form, painted by the crew, later in professional layout painted by BAKP 20.

eddie wrote:

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Lewarek wrote:

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Please ID this A7Vs
www.landships.freeservers.com/A7V3201514612.jpg

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This one is very strange: looks like one of the early tanks with the "buck" gun mount, however it has later-type 3-colour camouflage and the markings that seem to indicate its appearence to Freikorps, rather than army (skull & crossbones on the sides INSTEAD of German cross). Also, the persons on the foreground do not appear to have shoulder straps...

However, no sources seem to indicate Freikorps having any A7V (other than 2 "Hedi" models)

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Name on the front looks like 'Imperator' in Kokampf service, mentioned a bit further up this thread.

David

Dear Andrei,

If you can still speak Russian, and remember Natasha Maiorova from your school # 22 before you left to France in 1988, please write to me at ptenets@mail.ru :)

Bien a vous, Natalie 

The left one is 504 "Schnuck".