Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Captured Lanz ZF

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

Very interesting find! Never seen one of the LAnz ZF's in action before!

(Also, the new thumbnails system is cool!)

28juni14 · Hero

Sorry, but this is a USA vehicle; Armoured 10 ton Model 55 Artillery Tractor.

Centurion · Legend

Slight mystery as the Holt 10 ton armoured was not delivered to the US Army until early 1919. This photo is from an official US Army Engineers history and the other photos are all 1918. I've found only one photo captioned 10 ton armoured but it appears to show the very same vehicle from another angle. One would think that the US Army Engineers could tell a Holt from a German tractor. The text certainly says it was captured from the Germans as does the hand written note on the top of the photo. All the other photos in the history have the same handwriting on them which suggests that they were taken by the same person. Does anyone have any other photos of the ten ton?

28juni14 · Hero

Hello Robert ,

I have a number of pics, but lack the tools to post them here. Give me your Email address and I will scan them to you off-forum. None of them are war-time, though my notes suggest 2000 were built by the armistice. (You've likely seen the series of photos depicting the movement of the 42cm Bertha by these "cats".)

I too have noted that penciled descriptions on WW1 photos are often inaccurate.

My address is: jmueller@htc.net

Centurion · Legend

28juni14 wrote:

Hello Robert ,

I have a number of pics, but lack the tools to post them here. Give me your Email address and I will scan them to you off-forum. None of them are war-time, though my notes suggest 2000 were built by the armistice. (You've likely seen the series of photos depicting the movement of the 42cm Bertha by these "cats".)

I too have noted that penciled descriptions on WW1 photos are often inaccurate.

My address is: jmueller@htc.net

Thanks My E mail address is in my user profile Click on Centurion by the avatar. I'm sure you're right about the vehicle but I'm still puzzled - yes I know that written captions on photos are often awry but these were part of the official photo archives of the 105 Regiment of Engineers which were published in 1919 and appear to have been captioned by an officer of the Regiment before Jan 1919 - ie very close to the event. The regt built light railways, roads dug outs forts etc in the Ypres sector and one would expect its officers to be knowledgable about such vehicles

The archives, events drawings photos etc are useful for anyone with an interest in fortifications and are on the web. However they are so big that accessing them causes my PC to go weak at the knees and start prtotesting about not enough virtual memory (it also takes for ever even over broadband) I'll post the URL if anyone wants it.

Tim R · Hero

Hello Guys

Here are a few photos of the Armored Holt, compliments of Jack (28juni14).

All the best

Tim R

Tim R · Hero

Sorry Guys, my bad. I forgot to turn the photos.

All the best

Tim R

Roger Todd · Legend

Wow, that second photo shows a couple of Big Bertha barrels! Judging by the dapple camo, and the photo I was sent by Aberdeen, they're the barrels the Americans nabbed.

Just for fun, I've attached a clipping from Pliny Holt's patent for an Armoured Tractor...

Centurion · Legend

Tim

Is that not the armoured 5 ton not the 10 ton?

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Both the first image and the last are the armoured 10 ton tractors. They look very similar but the 10 ton is a scaled up version (obviously), but the shape of the armour plate on the front is quite different.

By my sources, 628 of the 10 ton tractors were in France by the armistice.

Tim

alfisherjr · Colonel

Inasmuch as the US was neutral during the first part of the war and did business with both sides, is it possible that Germany bought some Holt tractors?

Al

Great War Truck · Brigadier

I understand that they considered the Holt 75 before the war but did not buy any of them. I beleive that the armoured Holts were not developed until after the conflict had begun, but saying that it could be possible for it to have been captured by the germans and then recaptured by the Americans.

Tim

James H · Legend

Interesting that this should crop up so soon after philthydirtyanimal's pic of the 5-tonner. This certainly looks like the 10-tonner; Holt built about 2,300, and the Chandler Motor Car Company a further 700. I haven't got anything about the date of its arrival in Europe.

Can anyone i.d. the gun in Centurion's pic? That might help�to place it.

I've always been under the impression that the Germans had Holts in 1914. Certainly, A-H did: see the pic I posted of one in Brussels 1914.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=63528&p=3&topicID=13048006

-- Edited by James H at 12:30, 2007-11-27

Great War Truck · Brigadier

That is a very interesting picture. I have a picture of a Holt 75 in German Army service, but i had always assumed that it�had been�captured. All references to the 75 that i have say that it was not accepted by the Germans but was bought by the Austrians (although in what numbers it does not say).

A report i have on US military munitions states that up to 31 Jan 1919, 2014 ten ton Holts had been accepted by the US Army of which 628 were taken to Europe by 11/11/1918.

I will see if i can work out what the gun is.

Tim

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Well here is a picture of another one and with a 10 ten Holt towing it. This time under the direction of the 315th FA at Monthcon. You wonder what happened to them all.

Tim