Landships II

Nice work ... I like the Vickers especially ... have you decided what color scheme you're going to use?

Very nice work on the tires as well. Did you use the kit instructions for the wire wheels? How do you anticipate doing the double rears?

I don't have much specific on the hinges and latches, but a close review of the photos I have on the msn group should give you what you need.

I will be very interested to see how you end up making the rear wheels.

Are you considering using wood for the floors and rear, or stick with plastic card?

Richard,

When it comes to latches and hinges on the 1914 Admiralty Pattern RRACs there appears to have been a good deal of variation.

Even when examining the earliest 1914-1915 photos, many variations appear, suggesting that these were not simply field modifications but actual differences in manufacture from car to car. For example there is a photo in Warcars showing a number of brand-new RRACs parked along a street in Southwald in which you will note that the lead car has three wing-nut fittings on the "shoulder" of the bonnet/hood while the car immediately behind it has only two in this location. Some new RRACs in other photos don't even have the wing nut fittings but simply use two hinges in these locations instead. (You will also note that the lead car's turret top hatch hinges on the right while the hatch on the car behind it hinges on the left.)

On top of the bonnet/hood, while most RRACs have four hinges joined by a common hinge-pin running down the length of the bonnet/hood, some cars simply have two separate hinges.

Examination of a number of photos also reveals that the position and size of the two handles on each of the side bonnet/hood panels varies as well.

Field variations further complicate things. Many cars, particularly those photographed later in the war show evidence of replaced or modified hardware, notable by the dissimilar components found on a single car or unused brackets and bolt holes (typically filled with a bolt serving no other function but to cover the hole).

The earliest photos of the RRACs often show them without storage boxes mounted atop the rear platform and with small boxes suspended below the platform above and behind the rear tire. It appears therefor that they were delivered this way, leaving the design of the remaining boxes up to the units receiveing the cars.

There is a patent (GB115948A) for a view-firing port for an armoured vehicle that may be appropriate for the RRAC. I have not yet verified that it is correct though.

The 1920 Pattern RRACs appear to have been more standarized in their construction. The preserved example at Bovington is a good source for details of the fittings of that particular pattern, but I have not yet done a detailed comparison between the 1914 and 1920 patterns that might enable me to say if any particular hardware was typical to both.

If extreme accuracy is an issue to you, with this amount of variation to be seen in the original cars, my advice is pick a specific car for which you have clear photos and make your model true to it. To the best of my knowledge, while there may have been multiple batches of 1914 RRACs that were similarly outfitted, there was no 100% standardized car.

Your model looks great so far. Please keep us posted!

MarkV


-- Edited by MarkV at 16:42, 2007-12-03

Well, once again I've spent an hour composing a detailed response complete with photos and links only to have it disappear without a trace as I switch back and forth between the forum and the files on my hard drive. Grrrrrrr! (I think it happened when I opened a movie file on my computer while the forum posting window was also open.)

Richard,

Here it is in brief:
1. Take a look at the Australian War Memorial online collections, image number P02282.063 If you obtain a hi-res copy of the original image, it might turn up some additional detail of the rear door hardware. (Note that this image is tentatively identified in the collection as showing Lanchesters in Belgium while I believe it actually shows RRACs in Gallipoli.)

2. There is another photo showing a peek into the back doors here. Again, the original photo might show some detail, if you can track it down.

3. There is a photo showing the back doors open in the book With Lawrence in Arabia.

4. There is also a photo showing the back doors open in the book Rolls Royce and the Great Victory. (The reprint of this book is in a very small format, but the original printing might reveal more, if you can find one.)

5. There is a clear interior photo in Bartholomew's booklet "Early Armoured Cars". See this link and note that the actual image in the booklet is much better than the scan on the website.

Just to mention another oddity when it comes to the hatches, the movie "Heroes of Gallipoli" shows a 1914 Pattern RRAC with a rear turret hatch that opens upwards rather than to the side. By the way, this is a interesting historic documentary showing a closeup of the RRAC in motion and the crew entering through the rear hatches. I believe that it is viewable online somewhere.

MarkV



-- Edited by MarkV at 17:36, 2007-12-05

-- Edited by MarkV at 15:14, 2007-12-06

Hope "the Access on my pictures are not denied " -book is too old for copyright.

1 The Rolls build by Peter

2 The " Lancaster " told by Mark V

3 same as little drawing


Best regards -Gerd

Gerd,

Thank you for the RRAC and Lanchester plans.  I'd think twice before using them to build a model though.  The RRAC plans, at least, have some major problems.  Any new plans or photos of these cars are welcome though as there is so much variation from car to car and so little documentation.  I've looked around quite a bit and have been unable to find accurate plans for the 1914 Pattern cars that are at a reasonable scale (other than Phil's detail plan for the double wheels that is on his website - where did he find that, and can we get a high-res scan?).

Personally, I 'd start with the plans for the 1920 Pattern RRAC that were published in the September 1989 issue of FineScale Modeler and then modify them to reflect what can be seen in historic photos of the 1914 Pattern cars.  In fact, I have put together such a set of plans for the 1914 RRAC based on the FineScale set for my personal use.  I am not sure about the copyright status of of this so I am reluctant to post them.  - Anyone out there know how to go about getting permission?

I am just assuming that the FineScale plans are accurate, as they lack dimensions.  There is, of course, an original 1920 Pattern RRAC in the collection at Bovington.  It would be nice if someone could drop by and take some precise measurements that we could compare to the plans.

Until recently it was thought that there were no surviving original 1914 RRACs, but according to David Fletcher there is a forlorn and somewhat modified 1914 car on outdoors display in Ahmedgnar, India.  On request, Mr. Fletcher sent me a copy of a fairly recent postcard image showing the car.  If anyone out there is heading to India soon, please take along a measuring tape and report back.  I'd be more than happy to draft up a set of plans!

MarkV

Sorry i better had read your text a more bit exacly. Bovington -that it was.

But another thing: In my opinion -and i give a up since a long time the exact personally

measurement-taking in museeums - take the fix measures - seek a reference point -

add a piece like wheel or so were measures are known for controlling .

Good chance by original pictures from 90 ° angle .


Gerd

Found a artificial made up picture of the "open " tropical version of the RRAV .

Meanwhile i licked blood.....  Have a special look at the "natural rubber tires "

Gerd

So far I've just been following the kit instructions - when I get some time after the holidays, I hope to get around to making up the front and rear springs. The kit versions don't have enough leaves, and the hangers will look better scratchbuilt.

I haven't figured out which color scheme to use - the uralite version is intriguing!