Landships II

compound eye · Colonel

Choosing my first Great War armour project

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

The most practical project would be the Renault FT-17, I think! It would also be pretty easy to put interior in it. There are plenty of references around.

mad zeppelin · Commander in Chief

For an �berlandwagen, the Tauro-Model is only good for the tracks (a nightmare to complete on their own right) and the bogey-wagons (which still need adaptation/correction), everything else would have to come from scrap. The whole Tauro A7V interior is fantasy.
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compound eye · Colonel

Peter Kempf wrote:

The most practical project would be the Renault FT-17, I think! It would also be pretty easy to put interior in it. There are plenty of references around.

Thanks Peter, it does look like the obvious one IF I can get ahold of the kits I mentioned. The only UK site which had stock [that I have found] was wholesale only. So any fave web recommendations would be nice.

Meanwhile if someone else has ideas of a fairly straight forward kit-bash for the other ideas? Surely there must be an early Mk injection kit somewhere...?

Mark Hansen · Legend

compound eye wrote:

...1/ HMLS Kia-ora, based on the stunning 3 quarters shot in British Tanks 1915-1919.

Just worried about how much conversion work this'd take. Is it a MkI? [The book doesn't make it clear].�Are female sponsons available commercially? Would this be a total nightmare build if I used an Emhar MkIV to start?, or is there an earlier Mk injection kit out there? [Resin is too expensive for a first try]...

...4/ Mk1 supply tank.

Seems like a simple 'block off the sponsons' build, if I could find a MKI Male...

1/ Yes, Kia-Ora was a Mk I minus tail wheels. The track adjusting aperture is the main identification feature.

Don't know about female sponsons for 1/35; they are certainly available in 1/72.

I think the Emhar Mk IV is the same in 1/35 as 1/72 and, if so, you would need to:
1) Rework the cab (wider on the Mk I than the Mk IV, different cab gun mounting, vision slits just above the view ports instead of just below the roof).
2) Leave off the rear fuel tank and re-rivet the rear panel
3) Leave off the unditching�rails.
4) Leave off the exhaust pipe, open holes where the silencer is fitted and fit small inverted V exhaust covers.
5) Remove the small hatches on the rear roof, these didn't exist on the real tank Mk I or Mk IV.
6) Remove the small longitudinal strip in front of the hatches mentioned in 5)
7) Remove and cover the roof hatch. Then fit a circular hatch in the panel ahead of the removed hatch.
I think it would be a lot of work but it's your call smile .

Is there an earlier Mk in styrene? We all wish there was! The only one around is the Airfix kit (1/76) and that's OOP at the moment.

4/You've got the answer and the problem right there. Most of the conversion is as easy as blocking off the sponsons... if an earlier Mk (I or II) was available in 1/35. The Emhar Mk IV male in 1/35 would be fairly easy to convert to the Mk IV supply version but the sponsons need a bit of work to correct the angle of the rear plate. You can do a supply tank conversion with the Airfix kit fairly easily. Unfortunately for you, it's 1/76.

P.S.: Sorry if this sounds a bit gloomy but WWI isn't 'sexy' enough for kit manufacturers to approach. They'd rather do Panzer '46 or every Sherman variant that ever existed (and some that might have existed to do battle with the Panzer '46 crowd). (Rant over biggrin )

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 22:34, 2008-02-15

photoart · Corporal

Gun Carrier Mk1

There is a model by Panzershop however they are out of production, the supply version is still listed on the US Mission Models site.

http://www.missionmodels.com/product.php?productid=17170&cat=252&page=1

import to the UK can be expensive after tax is paid.

Mark Hansen · Legend

Paul,
One�modification that I missed for the Emhar kit�is the track adjuster aperture. For a Mk I it should have a rounded end instead of square.

compound eye · Colonel

Mark Hansen wrote:

Paul,
One�modification that I missed for the Emhar kit�is the track adjuster aperture. For a Mk I it should have a rounded end instead of square.

Indeed Mark, I was just looking at a lovely Panzershop Mk1 Female... and they've quite lazily given it a later Mk adjuster with the 'lined' square recess as opposed to the open round hole. Tsk tsk... wouldn't fancy reaming that out of a [probably] solid resin block either!

Seems like the more I look into these projects the further away they get...

As far as kits go it seems you can have any flavour you want�as long as its Emhar MkIV or MkV. Cannot find a single stockist for the RPM FT-17 Octagonal 37mm and the RPM working track set. Plus the only trader on EBay who has both is in the US and wants to lump a hefty handling charge on for customs declarations.

Does ANYONE know of a good place for RPM in the UK? Or is everything of interest deleted and fast going up in a puff of smoke? weirdface

Ironsides · Legend

Hi heres a link to ebay de where you can find lots of ft17's also has the track link set.... dont be afraid to ask many germans speak english well enough and postage isnt usually that horrible........

http://search.ebay.de/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&fcl=3&frpp=50&from=R10&satitle=renault+ft+17&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=Postleitzahl&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1

sorry i dont know how to make it shorter hope this helps..... Cheers

Mark Hansen · Legend

Ironsides,
The best way to avoid links of 500+ characters is to type in an appropriate word or phrase as a link, eg. 'ebay auction', and then select the word or phrase�and click on the�'insert/edit link' tool in the toolbar. In the pop-up window insert the address, usually by copying and pasting. An example with your link is below with a few screenshots to assist.

ebay auction

If you want the link to open in a new window, just select that option from the drop down menu underneath the�'Link URL'�area.
Hope this helps.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 07:19, 2008-02-17

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

Gilles Thomas, whom, I believe, has posted here before, scratch-built a very nice MkI from the Emhar MkIV. He posted photos of�his model on the Missing-Lynx forum a couple of years ago. Here are some photos of parts from the Panzershop MkI female, with the corresponding pieces from the Emhar MkIV, to give some idea of the conversion required. The cab on the Panzershop kit is too narrow for a MkI, and has a rim around the flaps more typical of the MkII. The steering tail included with the kit is nicely rendered, and the resin tracks are a major improvement over Emhar's vinyl tracks.�I would rate Panzershop's MkI as a good quality resin kit, about three times the cost of an Emhar kit, but eliminating the need for a considerable amount of rather tricky scratch building.�

compound eye · Colonel

Thanks Rhomboid,

Those comparisons help to put things in perspective!

I'm not sure about making Mk1 female sponsons but the rest is straightforward enough, and similar to what I used to do in my Tamiya days aww

Looks like my first choice is either going to be a MkI or MkIV supply tank then... Esp since RPM kits are rare.

I like the idea of a MkI supply because I could paint it 'sand' and lose the unditching rails... BUT I now like the sound of a MkIV supply because I could add some beefy track�'grousers', 'spuds' or whatever the correct WWI term is. Provided, of course, that the spud kits out there would fit the Accurate Armour resin tracks ok [seems to be the most available/'best?' replacement track option].

So, what's the score with wrong rear angles on male sponsons? ...and did supply tanks hang on to cab/sponson machine guns?

Thanks in advance for help on these two questions.

Ironsides · Legend

Hi compound eye, you might like to read "A Company of Tanks" towards the end the author is in command of a number of supply tanks and can confirm from this that they still had the cab mg......and even though it was presumably for self defence some may have seen action as a result... I really need to read it again...

Page 137

There was unfortunately a little hitch. When the tanks came on the scene, the enemy were still defending the bridge-head with the utmost vigour. The section commander did not hesitate. His tanks continued to move forward as tough they had been fighting tanks. The infantry, who had trained with tanks, advanced in the proper formation. The enemy broke and fled. It was a bloodless victory gained, curiously enough, by officers and men who were not rated as "fighting troops."

At another point he says they can "fight at a pinch"

A Company Of Tanks

As far as the MkIV sponsons are concerned they should be angled slightly at the rear�so they could be retracted for transportation by rail, with the sponsons fully out the tank is to wide and could easily end up stuck in a tunnel somewhere,�I believe all MkI-III tanks had to have the sponsons removed for this reason but it proved very difficult to refit them hence the retractable sponsons on the MKIV.....somwhere on the forum is a group shot of supply tanks, some with retracted sponsons....

A Nest Of Supply Tanks

Thanks to Mark Hanson for the heads up, very usefull tool...

Cheers

-- Edited by Ironsides at 00:12, 2008-02-21

Mark Hansen · Legend

compound eye wrote:

...So, what's the score with wrong rear angles on male sponsons? ...and did supply tanks hang on to cab/sponson machine guns?

Thanks in advance for help on these two questions.

Emhar's sponsons have the rear plate at 90� like the Mk I sponsons instead of at a slight angle (don't remember what angle it is).

As Ivor pointed out, the supply tanks did retain the cab MG position. The supply sponsons however had no MG position at all. I've attached a photo to show both details.

One conversion I will do one day is to make a 1/72 supply tank out of Emhar's kit. My method will be to sand off all the detail from the sponsons, rework the rear plate to the correct angle, and cover the sponsons with plasticard. Then the hard part starts... replacing all the riveted detail. Other than that, it will be pretty much OOTB.

P.S.: Almost forgot - I'll need to add a cab roof hatch. The above mentioned conversion points should be valid for the 1/35 model too.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 02:30, 2008-02-21

Mark Hansen · Legend

Mark Hansen wrote:
...Then the hard part starts... replacing all the riveted detail...

...on the sponsons! I don't plan on re-riveting the entire tank!!

compound eye · Colonel

Mark Hansen wrote:
Emhar's sponsons have the rear plate at 90� like the Mk I sponsons instead of at a slight angle (don't remember what angle it is).

As Ivor pointed out, the supply tanks did retain the cab MG position. The supply sponsons however had no MG position at all. I've attached a photo to show both details.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 02:30, 2008-02-21

Thanks Mark... and Ironsides - great insights. Wow, I never realized that MkIV supply tanks had 'tailor made' supply sponsons, rather than plated up male sponsons like MkIs [as shown in the Osprey book, haven't seen the MkIV book to compare yet].

I'm guessing the angle is fairly minimal and that a bit of careful sawing should achieve it - unless the rear sponson wall is separate on the Emhar kit in which case sanding and filler will probably negate the need for a whole new rear wall.

Just shows how little I know [being a newcomer to WWI armour].

I shall have to look for mention of retracting sponsons on the forum,�as that's something else that books tend to skim over.

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

hi compound

i was just idly checking through Jadar's shop. they have a lot of RPM 1/35 FT 17s. i have always had excellent service from Jadar; used them about half a dozen times.

didnt check for the extras you want. but i know that aftermarket tracks for this are found on ebay; but they are listed wrongly! search for 'emhar FT17' or 'RPM whippet' or even just 'emhar' and you should find them

(this machine i'm on has some peculiar software that is seriously limiting my connectivity - apparantly this forum is for over 18s only - so i can't easily find the link for you - sorry)

Mark Hansen · Legend

compound eye wrote:
...unless the rear sponson wall is separate on the Emhar kit in which case sanding and filler will probably negate the need for a whole new rear wall...

The rear wall is seperate on the 1/72 kit, so probably will be on the 1/35. One other modification is the sponson door. On the supply tanks it was a plain flat door, there being no need to dispose of shell casings. Easy to model - just sand the small flap at the bottom of the door level with the rest of the door.

The sponsons on Mk IV supply tanks were retractable. The link in Ivor's post "A nest of supply tanks" shows this off well.

compound eye · Colonel

Mark Hansen wrote:

P.S.: Almost forgot - I'll need to add a cab roof hatch. The above mentioned conversion points should be valid for the 1/35 model too.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 02:30, 2008-02-21

Cab roof hatch? So Supply tanks had different cab roofs to the standard large oblong front hinged type? Is this for MkIs or MkIVs?

Also, did MKIV Supply tanks retain the angled 'mid' turret? Or was that ousted in favour of additional stowage racks on top?

I looked a another Supply tank thread which got a bit err... 'exciting' and decided not to spark it off again weirdface

by asking questions about roof hatches, or top & rear stowage.

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

RPM 35065 - Char Canon FT-17 w/Renault type turret (octagonal)

http://www.jadarhobby.waw.pl/35065-char-canon-ft17-wrenault-type-turret-octagonal-p-2022.html?language=en&currency=EUR

Mark Hansen · Legend

compound eye wrote:

Cab roof hatch? So Supply tanks had different cab roofs to the standard large oblong front hinged type? Is this for MkIs or MkIVs?

Also, did MKIV Supply tanks retain the angled 'mid' turret? Or was that ousted in favour of additional stowage racks on top?

I looked a another Supply tank thread which got a bit err... 'exciting' and decided not to spark it off again by asking questions about roof hatches, or top & rear stowage.

Most Mk IV males and females had the solid cab roof but most (if not all) of the Mk IV supply�tanks had the same type of hatch as fitted to the Mk V, which is the one I think you referred to. Mk I's and II's had a rear-hinged cab roof hatch and this feature was faithfully captured by Airfix. See Bovington's Mk II example here.�It is currently fitted out as a female.

The mid-roof hatch was kept although it can be a bit hard to see on a fully stowed example. The Mk IV's kept the roof top stores box but had no rear stowage due to the fuel tank.