Landships II

James H · Legend

RE: The LK Tanks

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Yep. All my fault! And, knowing me, it won't be too long before I say something else equally stupid. It is inevitable (must be genetic). I apologise in advance.

@Kjell S (and anyone else who's interested), the B T White book is available on ebay at the moment (I have no connection with the seller, as far as I can tell)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tanks-Armoured-Fighting-Vehicles-1900-1918-WW-I-1st_W0QQitemZ380075128773QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item380075128773&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

and here on Abebooks

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1014353140&searchurl=kn%3Dwhite%2Bfighting%2Bvehicles%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D65%26y%3D7

I like this thread.

@elbavaro Yes, I read the new Stasheim article when it was first posted (without fanafare). And I was happy that it was from someone who makes a point of trying to properly research the early German tanks (not just guesses).

I like this thread beacuse it has pointed out that what was 'common knowledge' was in fact very wrong in many aspects. I still think that there are gaps in this vehicle's (or series of vehicles') history. Maybe we can fill those gaps. Maybe some things are frustratingly lost to time.

Peter T · General

Unfortunately I can't contribute to that interresting discussion, but I simply wanted to post a pic of one of that Hungarian Lk IIs.

Cheers
Peter T (still struggling with his A7V)

Mark Hansen · Legend

Centurion wrote:

...I also enclose another shot of a 21/29 in which the vents are invisible - poor lighting again?...

The vents are there but hard to see because of too much light! I've pointed out some of the vents (the saw-tooth feature) on your image.

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

@philthydirtyanimal: I agree 100%!

Kjell S · Sergeant

Yes of cause there has to be air vents somewhere, bout in front of and behind the cooler.And there are certainly air vents on all the LKIIs, two on top and one on each side of the engine.The two on op are very difficult to see on some photos.

A strv 21-29

Close up, showing air went, and big protected filler cap only on 21-29s

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

It just shows what I said.

Thank you Kjell!

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

@Centurion:

I found the link to the swedish website with the old military movies:

http://www.amf-film.se/Default.htm

James H · Legend

Wait a minute. Look where the side louvres are in the pics that Mark and Kjell have posted, and compare with those on Peter T's Hungarian model. They're in different places, aren't they? Or have we already done this?

I don't know what's going on.

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

@James:

you are right. I haven't noticed that before. But I have controlled all my pictures. It seems that - like Kjells picture shoes - it is only related to Stridsvagn m21/29 but not to LK II / Stridsvagn m21.

So I think that it is related to new engine which was built into the upgraded Stridsvagn m21/29.

But: only some of the Stridsvagn m21/29 shows the difference like in Kjells picture and some don't.

As far as I know there were only 5 Stridsvagn m21 upgraded to Stridsvagn m21/29, but in two different factories. Maybe this is the answer:different factories = different engines or/and different side plates?

@Kjell: any ideas?

-- Edited by elbavaro at 23:20, 2008-11-03

Kjell S · Sergeant

This is quite right; this modification was made when the strv 21 was upgraded to strv 21-29. And it is only done on the right side. Why, I dont know.
If you look on my photo above, you can see the welding seam just behind the side vent.

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

@elbavaro: those films on that web site are fantastic! Thank you for posting.

Sadly the performance of the Stridsvagn was not fantastic! It gets stuck, one way or another,�in just about every clip, except in deep snow.

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

@philthydirtyanimal:

Well ... bear in mind what kind of basics had been for a Whippet or Renault FT-17 assault. Of course the LK basics were simillar.

The winter video: I liked that to - especially the camouflage painting is very interesting. I had seen it on a swedish website before, but it was only a drawing. Later I saw a picture .... but ... seeing it in action is amazing.

btw: I am not quite sure, but it seems that the vids are only teasers and the original you can buy there are longer? I am not quite sure.

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Yes, elbavaro, the Stridsvagn must be put into context when considering its cross-country performance; it was just as good as the FCM 2C, Tank Mark VIII and Medium Mark C, I guess. That was probably due to the skinny tracks it ran on and the under-powered engine.

The winter camouflage (or snow pattern) is very effective; yes, you can see something is there, but you can't really see how large it is or which way its gun is pointing!

And yes, I think the films are teasers. The descriptions seem to talk about many things that are not in the short clip. However my Swedish is limited to what I heard on The Muppet Show (and I mean no offence to Swedes; that is a joke about my own ignorance!). I would be interested in a translation of the site; I think there is much more there that I would like to see, and I would consider buying some of those films.

Thanks again elbavaro for posting the link

Desert_Erik · Sergeant

Hi all!

There have been some discussion about the hungarian LK IIs on this site and I have some new (?) info on them.
We have one photo that is well known and has been claimed to have been taken i Hungary (the one recently posted by Peter T here above).
This has also been claimed to have been taken in Sweden but anyone with any knowledge about swedish uniforms can see that the soldier in front of the tank is not�swedish. This doesent proove anything though, since theoretically it could be a foreign soldier visiting Sweden.
However I have now been informed that the photo was taken�at Hajmasker barracks in Hungary in 1932 by "Tankman" Jeno Jeszenszki, the soldier in the photo is wearing a typical hungarian uniform.
There is another photo around which shows two LK IIs and at least two Fiat 3000bs, also at the Hajmasker barracks (which absoloutly cant have been taken in Sweden since we have never had any Fiat 3000Bs here).�
Hungary bought some 14 LK IIs� from Germany in 1920�but they were�hidden until 1930�when only six of them were finally completed.
They were then used bu RUISK (Police Academy) for training.
Everything was very secret since Hungary were prohibited to have any armoured vehicles after WW I.
In 1931�Hungary bought some five Fiat 3000Bs and in 1932 all but one of the LK IIs were scrapped, the last one was found by�some soldiers abandoned and hidden in the barracks, they sold it for scrapvalue�in 1939.

There may actually be a swedish connection in this affair�though. Sweden turned down an offer�for some LK IIs�in Berlin since the price was to high (Sweden later bougth our LK IIs at another company, Kjell knows more about this), the number of tanks offered in this deal�is�approx the same number�as the tanks bought by Hungary.
Its pure speculation though, but maybe, just maybe the swedish�diplomats tipped the hungarian diplomats about this source for LK II tanks, but as I said this is pure speculation.�

I hope this info�can add some�more light on "The LK II saga"

Erik
Sweden