Landships II

Ironsides · Legend

Lewis guns to Russia a clue?

James H · Legend

I'm waiting for the Library Service to come up with the book. According to their computer, they've got one somewhere, but sometimes you order a book and never hear anything again. We shall see.

In the meantime, did you notice this line in the article:

The inventor informed the committee that he had gone to Belgium in 1912 to organize a company to manufacture his gun . . . . Later on, finding that his company had fallen into German control, he went to England, and early in 1913 British capital took up the gun.

Curious. Unless it's just badly put, does that mean the company fell into German control before the War, presumably meaning financial control?

*Well, blow me down. Just received letter from Library Service. "This item is out of print and is also unavailable to borrow via Regional Loans. A reference-only copy is available at the British Library." That's a bit of a nuisance; it's 200 miles away. However, it's just round the corner from Roger Todd . . .

-- Edited by James H at 11:56, 2008-07-02

Ironsides · Legend

Hi James, seems like the director and some of his staff were pro-german ...heres the search�I used....

Lewis machine Gun New York Times

Theres a lot interesting stuff in there but its a problem to wade through the quantity and find the revelant material.....

Cheers

Perhaps MrT might take a look for us?

-- Edited by Ironsides at 12:25, 2008-07-02

Centurion · Legend

Lewis guns were certainly supplied to Russia for use on aircraft but they seem to have been always in short supply.

James H · Legend

Well. The NYT�reveals that�the Lewis was tested at Bisley in November 1913, so the idea of Colonel L fleeing from Belgium can't be right. I'd be interested to see the bit about the pro-German staff.

On the thread about the Lewis in Belgian service we speculated that there can't have been many. The Belgian attach� was at Bisley, so it can't have attracted much attention in Belgium. It also emerged that the Lewis was withdrawn from service with the AEF for "political reasons". I wonder if the hoo-ha about whether or not Lewis offered it to the US had something to do with that.

Cent: I quite agree about the Lewises for the Russians. Some�infer that because Lewises were supplied to Russia at least�a few�must have gone to the Army, but there's no proof of that until 1918, and I think those arrived with the Allied Intervention forces.

Rectalgia · Legend

Off topic, but since the Intervention forces and Lewis guns are mentioned, this dissertation (211 pages) :-

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/26041/thebriti.pdf?sequence=1

... includes lists of equipment supplied to the forces of Denikin and to the forces of Wrangel (April 1919 to June 1920) in Appendix 2 - "Sources: Maj.-Gen. Sir H.C. Holmans Final Report of the Military Mission, South Russia. WO 33/971, PRO. Resume of work by the RAOC with the British Military Mission in South Russia, by Lt-Col. Symons, Symons Papers, PLA.Nekatoraia perepiskaia po vaprosam� snabzheniia Armii v Krymu s maia po oktiabr�1920 g., Kusonskii Collection, Box 2 file 2, HIA."

Calibres of the 4,794 Lewis LMGs aren't mentioned (nor of the 2,246 Vickers "HMG", guess those we would call MMG in later times) but the rifles are shown as "Russian 7.62, SMLE, Ross" along with 572 million rounds of ammunition, FWIW.

Sheesh, no small thing then - included 56 Mk Vs, 18 Whippets, 6 Rolls Royce armoured cars, 402 lorries, 227 touring cars and 279 motor cycles (those all to Denikin), not to mention 578,000 complete sets of British uniforms (and 103,378 steel helmets) and 768,407 pairs of boots.