My current area of interest is in what new weapons were being introduced at the end of the war or would have been in use in 1919. I have a reasonable grip on tanks and infantry weapons but I'm not so sure on the artillery side. Beyond just 'more of everything' I have the following new things on my list (and pictures for): - British 18pdr Mk4 with box trail for longer range - German 88mm (and others) AA guns (as per recent posts) - French 194mm and 280mm self propelled artillery on St Chamond tracked chassis - German & French 37mm anti tank guns - US Marines 7" on tracked carriage
Can the many experts out there tell me of anything else that I should consider?
18pdr on the split trail should also be there. There were 3 carriages for the MkIV 18pdr the only one to see servive was the interim (short) box trail based on the 4.5's trail. That was only a stop gap.
Mortars - the 'proper' areodynamic bomb for the stokes - giving it approx 2200m range.
Motorised (in the truck bed) 4" Stokes Mortars. The brits had several SP projects on the go, but the only one I can find deatails of is a very modern looking AA gun in a tracked mount with folding sides.
The American's are probably the most fertile field for Artillery, as it should include the bulk of their 'intended' weapons eg the US 120mm gun, 75mm version of the 18pdr etc.
Several nations were looking at upsizing their light infantry guns from 37mm to 45mm to 60mm to get better effect.
Note the Brits were well through on an "automatic" rifle (ie semi-auto in modern parlance) that was effectively dead ended when the war stopped. Lewis guns without the air jecket are almost a certainty - they had worked out that it did little to aid cooling but added Kg's to the weight!
The Theromgenerator Arsenic Smoke - Shells, Grenades, Mortar Bombs, Livens Drums. There was an odd ball experiment with a bank of Livens projectors on Truck beds & a "bigger" one (so presumably longer range) on a flat bed? Have never seen any pictures though.
1st practical attempts at portable (not requring a vehicle) radios.
The air war & air support for the ground is another big field.
Thanks for the response Brennan. Thoughts below (hope this works)
Brennan wrote:
18pdr on the split trail should also be there. There were 3 carriages for the MkIV 18pdr the only one to see servive was the interim (short) box trail based on the 4.5's trail. That was only a stop gap. I wonder if the split trail would have made it by 1919. I realise that the end of the war slowed everything down but still, it didn't make it into service until 1923.
Mortars - the 'proper' areodynamic bomb for the stokes - giving it approx 2200m range. I had mised this one. Not as glamourous as an entirly new weapon but nearly doubling the range would be a significant factor - just like adding a mile to the range of the 18pdr would have a mjor impact on how far the artillery could support the infantry during an attack
Motorised (in the truck bed) 4" Stokes Mortars. The brits had several SP projects on the go, but the only one I can find details of is a very modern looking AA gun in a tracked mount with folding sides. I wonder if this was the so called Birch gun of 1925 on a Vickers Medium chassis - very definitely post-war. Even so, truly innovative
The American's are probably the most fertile field for Artillery, as it should include the bulk of their 'intended' weapons eg the US 120mm gun, 75mm version of the 18pdr etc. Something for me to dig further into. Presumably the US, having started with the French 75mm as their artillery piece decided to stick with that calibre, although the shell weight would have been 20% less than a 'pure' 18pdr. Of course the US then supplied some of these to Britain in 1940 after Dunkirk! Haven't managed to find anything much on the 120mm yet (not even on Landships
Several nations were looking at upsizing their light infantry guns from 37mm to 45mm to 60mm to get better effect. Interesting that the British never seemed to get into this kind of gun
Note the Brits were well through on an "automatic" rifle (ie semi-auto in modern parlance) that was effectively dead ended when the war stopped. Lewis guns without the air jecket are almost a certainty - they had worked out that it did little to aid cooling but added Kg's to the weight! I have found mention of the semi-automatic rifle in the past but never been able to find any real information. Interesting that the British and French did not seem to respond to the German introduction of the Bergmann SMG.
The Theromgenerator Arsenic Smoke - Shells, Grenades, Mortar Bombs, Livens Drums. There was an odd ball experiment with a bank of Livens projectors on Truck beds & a "bigger" one (so presumably longer range) on a flat bed? Have never seen any pictures though. Special Brigade was introducing sets of Livens projectors on a sled to be towed by a supply tank. Crude but no need to dig in (usually a big overhead) and talk of using them to launch attacks on strongpoints holding out during an attack. The really big thing (along with the thermogenerators) may well have been the British plan to have gas shells for every gun calibe up to 9.2"
1st practical attempts at portable (not requring a vehicle) radios. I need to investigate this in depth some time. The trouble is that, as a physicist, I keep getting absorbed in the technology
The air war & air support for the ground is another big field. Yes, I have dug up quite a lot on this. What is fascinating is how much everyone had forgotten in this area by 1939
60 pounder Mk 2 (that is, redesigned gun, not 60 pounder gun on mk 2 carriage which was used through the war)
Thnaks for the pointer. It is often difficult to pick up when 'just after the war' means 'sas just about to arrive' and when it means 'was never going to make it' - so this helps
Alan L, re the split trail 18pdr, it almost certainly would have made it. Once the armistace was declared things came very much to a grinding halt! Any thing & virtually everything in the way of contracts etc that could be canceled was cancelled! With the effort in demobilisation & dismantaling the war effort etc I'm plaun surprised that it was available for service in 1923, so much "surplus" on hand caused many things to lie dormant for almost 20 years. About the only money available for R & D & new equipment was wisely spent doing the prelims & prototypes plus engineering work for the "next War". What is often not realised is that the Brits didn't introduce much new gear - especially artillery as it was all available by about 1936 - just needing the money to introduce it! Yes the Mk II 25pdr was fully developed by 1936, so was the 6pdr AT gun pretty much, plus the 5.5" gun howitzer & the 7.2" howitzer. the delays were in the need to fund & get production in sequence.
The vast amounts of kit surplus to requirements after the war were hindrances to new ideas in many cases. At least the 18pdr was kept moving forward. From a tank viewpoint Britain was 'lucky' that most of its production had been of its short life heavies, so that it needed to design and build newer models. The French were trapped a timewarp with vast quantities of the limited FT for a long time.
This may have been posted before but I found this picture of interest - two 18pdr Mk4's apparently captured by US troops in Iraq during the Gulf War. Still with non-motorised wheels
The picture has not been posted before. Though I suspect the guns are late 20's to mid 30's "sales" to Feisal Husein's regime in Iraq under the British mandate. Some othe 'interesting bits have been found including some ex Serbian PD06 or PD06bis 75mm guns as well.
See the "mysterious US gun" thread for some comment on their mucking about with artillery. By my count 1919 in your senario would have seen the following:
US 75mm version of 18pdr - prob in more than 1 configuration. US 4.7" / 120mm guns & prob a howitzer. US 3.8" both Gun & Howitzer Prob both a 155mm Gun & Howitzer
Full issue of the BAR in the Light Automatic Weapon role. Plus wide issue of the Browning aircooled .30 cal in close to a sustained fire GPMG role (Coy & Btn weapon)
Hi I am preparing for the production of 280 mm mortars saint CHAMOND in scale 1:35 of resin.Gun 194 mm I have made the truck for these weapons. Do you have any evidence? can you provide?
best regards
