Landships II

PDA · Legend

APG's Tank Mark IV

Gwyn Evans · Legend

The text is nonsense. There was a tank in the USA called "Britannia" promoting war bond sales but it is definitely not the tank that is now rotting away at APG. We can be sure of that because Britannia is unusual in having a cab roof hatch, which isn't present on the APG Mark IV.

There were six Mark IV Females exported to the USA at the end of WW1 and in all probability the APG tank is one of those. We know their serial numbers, but until someone gets inside the Mark IV at APG and finds the makers plate then we won't know the serial, which is very frustrating. (On a happier note I can identify the APG Medium A from interior photos found on the internet).

Five of the six were built by Coventry Ordnance Works, which put maker's plates in their tanks on both sides of the cab's interior - see the Mark IV at AWM. The sixth Mark IV was from Metropolitan production and so far as I know they didn't have any maker's plates inside, although their Mark Vs did.

You'll find alot on Britannia on this Forum as Centurion has done alot of very good research into it.

Gwyn

PDA · Legend

Thanks Gwyn. I must confess that I had seen all of Centurion's posts but was put off by their length. Then, a couple of days after posting this, I took the plunge and read them.

In one of those posts you state that 12 Mark IV females were shipped to the USA on November 7th, 1918. Has that now been revised down to 6?

This is so I can put the most accurate information into the "Surviving Mark IV Tanks" article on Landships2. To that end, I should correct the title of this thread, as the present whereabouts of "Liberty" is unknown; she could still be at APG or she may be at Fort Lee, Virginia, or she may have disintegrated in a cloud of rust during the moving process.

-- Edited by PDA on Thursday 29th of July 2010 10:15:37 PM

Gwyn Evans · Legend

PDA

Twelve is correct, apologies. Shipped from Southampton on 7 November 1918. All bar one from COW, the exception being from Metropolitan.

Not sure what thread you're referring to. What evidence is there that Britannia's name was ever changed to Liberty? And what evidence is there it ever made it to APG or Fort Lee?

The following is a complete list of surviving Mark IVs, albeit there may be one buried somewhere we don't know of (wishful thinking!):

Male, probable serial 2324, at the Tank Museum, Bovington, Dorset, UK;
Female, unknown serial, at the Museum of Lincolnshire Life, Lincoln, UK;
Male, serial 4093, at the Mus�e Royale de lArmee, Brussels, Belgium;
Female, serial 4643, at the Australian War Memorial, Canberra, Australia;
Female, unknown serial, at the Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland, USA;
Female, serial 2620, at Flesqueries, France,
Female, unknown serial but Home Service Number 245, at Ashford, Kent, UK

(As someone may say we do know the number of Flirt II at Lincoln as it's painted on, I'll pre-empt the objection by saying that this number is fictitious as there are no Mark IV serials starting 29xx).

Gwyn

PDA · Legend

Gwyn,

The thread I referred to specifically is: http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=63528&p=3&topicID=10610348

But there are 3 or 4 other threads dealing with the touring tanks in USA.

I wasn't saying I disagree with you and Centurion, and agree with Dr Atwater et al. I suppose I�was trying to get your confirmation or opinion�of these basic statements about the APG Mark IV:

She was not at the Battle of Arras.
She probably never saw action.
She was probably never called Britannia.
She is called Liberty.
She was kept outdoors at APG from 1919.
She is probably one of the 12 shipped to USA in November 1918.
She may be at APG, Fort Lee, or somewhere else, because APG has moved.

The document I quoted from is attached. It is the old article about attempts to measure a tank. Most of it describes their attempts at measuring things, but the preamble and first paragraph or two�make statements about�the tank.

Rob · Legend

She'd have to be a time traveller to be at Arras, only Mk I's and Mk II's were present (and Rolls Royce armoured cars)

Ironsides · Legend

Hi Rob, I would wait untill after its been restored to tell them that wink

Cheers

Gwyn Evans · Legend

PDA

On the statements:

1. Definitely not - Rob is right.
2. If statement 6 is true, as I believe, then this statement is also true.
3. No idea what it may have been called. But it is not the tank Britannia that toured the US selling war bonds.
4. No idea if it was ever called Liberty. People may have called it alot of things! There doesn't seem to be any evidence for this except the statement you quote that is wrong in almost every other respect and therefore cannot be regarded as a reliable source.
5. Quite probably.
6. That is my belief.
7. If not at APG then I have no idea of its present whereabouts. Hopefully it's indoors.

Gwyn

PDA · Legend

Thanks all.

The new section on Liberty is now on Landships2.