Landships II

CharlieC · Legend

Rumanian 75mm Krupp M03

Hughbearson · General

Could it be browned steel?

Pat · Commander in Chief

For starters, until the gurus join in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romanian_Army_Flag_-_1897_used_model.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kingdom_of_Romania_-_1881_CoA.svg
http://romaniancoins.org/coatromania.html

I see no "C I" monogram like on the gun barrel but the crown might very well be it.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2794&st=15&hl=bronze
mentions Krupp guns with bronze barrels being imported by Romania but that was in 1868.

CharlieC · Legend

Hughbearson wrote:

Could it be browned steel?

I really don't know - the only browned steel I've seen was a fairly dull brown colour - the Krupp gun seems to have a coppery colour. I'll ask the owners.

Regards,

Charlie

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Neil · Corporal

Long time lurker smile

I live in Beechworth so I wll go into town this afternoon and do a magnet check on the metal of the barrel.

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil · Corporal

A quick check with a magnet confirms that the barrel is steel.

The finish of the steel is very smooth - almost like it had been blued originally.

Cheers!

Neil.

CharlieC · Legend

Neil, think you very much for taking the trouble to resolve this mystery.

The copper coating is obviously something the restorers applied - I can't think why they'd want to do that. Gun barrels usually are very smooth, surface imperfections can lead to stress in the metal - the last thing you want in a container of multi-ton pressures.

I know I'm pushing it, but if you get the chance to get an image of the back of the gun's breech it would useful to confirm the gun's serial no. against the AWM records.

Regards,

Charlie

Neil · Corporal

Photos taken before last repaint by RSL.

I don't believe the barrel is actually copper coated - it appears to be very fine uniform rust.

All the exposed iron/steel is a similar colour.

The climate in Beechworth is exceedingly clean - lots of rain and practically no pollution - thus all the exposed iron/steel forms a iron oxide complex on the surface that is quite stable in our clean environment.

I think the original photo colour rendition has caused the misconception.

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Cheers!

Neil.

CharlieC · Legend

That matches - the AWM records say that Beechworth was allocated a 75mm gun in 1921/22 serial no. #317, captured by the Light Horse. No indication of place or date of capture - the inference is that is was picked up in Palestine in 1918.

Thanks again,

Charlie

wingsofwrath · Private

I can confirm this gun is indeed a Romanian Krupp M.1904 field gun (Tun de camp Krupp, cal. 75 mm, md. 1904) as this is virtually identical to one of the few examples in the collection of the Military Museum of Bucharest.
Also as a funny coincidence, the original colour during use before WW1 would have been a reddish brown paint not at all dissimilar to the colour displayed by the oxidised parts...

Picture courtesy of the Bulgarian Artillery website: http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Krupp%2075mm%201904_Bucharest.htm

memo · Corporal

I am 100% sure that this system(75qfKruppM1904) was captured by Turkish 6-th exp corps(15-th and 25-th divisions) during the " Roumanian" campaign in 1916-1917 in Dobroudja region ,and after that was transported to Palestine(4-th army/Exp corps/3-th and 27-th divisions) to defend that Ottoman province, and obviosly then was recaptured By ANZacs .In fact i� think that ANZacs captured this gun from 27-th Turkish division which was operational in Yaffa and Haifa area.

-- Edited by memo on Thursday 14th of April 2011 03:13:59 PM

CharlieC · Legend

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I've been running a survey of surviving 75mm Krupp field guns in Australia - so far there

are 6 ex-Rumanian guns surviving in Australia. Most of then have 1904 build dates. It's notable that these guns were designed to use the Goertz panoramic sight rather than the arc sight the early M1903 75mm Turkish guns used.

There's an image in the AWM collection of the captured field guns at Beersheba - most of these seem to be Rumanian guns.

Regards,

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Thursday 14th of April 2011 11:56:53 PM

memo · Corporal

Yess, it is a good picture of an 75 mm QF Krupp export variant of a 77mm QF M1896

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here you can see the Turkish patern of the same gun-->75 mm QF� M1903 . The gun is hit by Bulgarian Artillery in a Battle of Lozengrad in 1912 ,and after that captured:

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http://www.lostbulgaria.com/?p=3638

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CharlieC · Legend

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I think you're mixing guns together.

The 75mm Krupp export field gun was a design that was introduced in 1902 as a response to the Ehrhardt 75mm gun. The 77mm Feldkanone M1896 started out as

guns without recoil/recuperator which were modified in 1907 (usually in Spandau) with a Rheinmetall slide breech and recoil/recuperator.

That's a good image of a Model 1903 - the foresight on the left of the barrel really shows up well. Looks like the gun was hit by something big and heavy. Attached is another one that was hit in the shield - this is a Brazilian order M1911 gun given to the Turkish Army. It currently is a gate guard at Duntroon RMC (Royal Military College) in Canberra.

Regards,

Charlie

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-- Edited by CharlieC on Friday 15th of April 2011 02:40:04 PM