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Post Info TOPIC: S. Zaloga's New Book . . .
James H


Legend

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S. Zaloga's New Book . . .
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. . . on French Tanks.

I have to say that this is, unfortunately, not a triumph.

No new photos, which is fair enough, except for one very nice one of the FCM 1A that I hadn't seen before.

Some of the chronology seems a bit wobbly, but I shall check that further.

He describes the Schneider Crocodile and the Aubriot-Gabet as "land torpedos, also called chariots lance-bombes." They certainly didn't launch bombs. I think he might be confusing them with the Archer armoured car, and they're rather peripheral to matters anyway.

More or less everything you would expect to get a mention does (Boirault, Laffly, etc).

Describing the competition between the St. Chamond and the Schneider, he says the St C had "eight road wheels per side versus six on the Schneider."

He also credits the idea of a light tank entirely to Estienne. Acc to Jeudy, Malmassari, and our good friends Michel and François, there is considerable doubt about that. Estienne was certainly still pursuing the idea of medium and heavy tanks, and recent evidence suggests strongly that it was Louis Renault who persuaded E of the benefit of light machines, after which E championed them with all the zeal of a convert.

Most puzzling is this: Renault (ordered drawings of the light tank) "under the direction of one of his engineers, Charles-Edmond Serre." I have never come across this name before. It turns out that he designed Renault cars after WWII. It's possible that he was at Renault in 1916, but I have never heard his name mentioned in connection with the FT before. There is, though, no mention at all of Rodolphe Ernst-Metzmaier, who is usually credited with the design.

There is also a claim that 2 Schneiders and 2 St. Chamonds were converted to Wireless Tanks in 1917. That's a new one on me, but it could be something I've missed/forgotten.

Please feel free to argue.

SZ has managed to get pretty much the full story into 48 pages, with plenty of photos and a large bibliography, which is no mean feat, and I would venture to suggest that, allowing for necessary omissions in such a short work, it's a useful guide for anyone who wants to read about the topic in a single volume. I'm just disappointed by what appear to be a few clangers. Then again, I might be wrong, in which case it's me that looks stupid.

One more thing someone might be able to clear up: SZ says that some Schneiders were fitted with a means to signal accompanying infantry that consisted of "a folding metal panel on the roof that could be lifted vertical from the driver's position by means of a cable. It was painted red with a white stripe to make it clearly visible." I've not come across this before, and the red/white/red makes me a bit suspicious. Anyone heard of this?

P.S. The final sentence in the book: "The last known combat action by the Renault FT was Afghanistan in the 1980s where a handful of tanks were used as static pillboxes or roadblocks."

-- Edited by James H on Friday 14th of January 2011 04:07:14 PM

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Tanker


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Bonjour James,

I agree you about this book. I was a little disappointed and hoped to found a lot of new photos . . . !
It's a too wide topic for only 50 pages . . . But, it's true, there is not enough english book on french ww1 tanks !

Steven Zaloga probably well look at my topics on forum "pages 14-18" (or, perhaps, go to Vincennes to work on the good box . . . . ).
I was probably the first to write about these panels, two years ago.

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale-chars-d-assaut/panneaux-infanterie-schneider-sujet_412_1.htm

I am very sorry but I have done a mistake, and Steve Zaloga, who probably don't look at my topic from September 7 th, 2010, copy it !

Tank number of Schneider (page 14) is not the good one.
Schneider from S/Lt Pierre Debruères is number 61047 and not 61216.

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale-chars-d-assaut/juvincourt-schneider-baruteau-sujet_956_1.htm

but Debruères. I also, sometimes, do the mistake . . . . :

For Schneider and St Chamond used like "TSF tank"; it is a good information. It Was for La Malmaison's fights (23 Octobre 1917). Tanks from Groupement n° II and N° X.

Two Schneider and two St Chamond were used with a radio. It was not modified tanks, and only tanks coming from these two Groupements to take a radio team with their equipment.

These tank were in stand by on a rear place an received message from the Tank's batteries for Divisions Head-Quarter. It was just to send position reached by tank's units.
These messages were also received by an airplane, flying upon the battle field.

Good list of french studies in this book, but no information about website like "Landships" - "Page 14-18" - "chars français" . . . . who diffuse aslo good historical informations on tanks !

May the next one will be the very good one - Michel



-- Edited by Tanker on Friday 14th of January 2011 07:33:38 PM

-- Edited by Tanker on Friday 14th of January 2011 07:34:28 PM

-- Edited by Tanker on Friday 14th of January 2011 11:26:25 PM

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James H


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Michel, je vous tire mon chapeau.


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Tanker


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 Bonsoir,

Here is the four tanks used like "Char TSF" during La Malmaison fights (23/10/17).

Groupement n° II :

AS 11 - Schneider M1 n° 61105
                   - Chef de char             : Adjt Pollet
                   - Officier d'Antenne      : S/Lt Guizien
                   - Radio                       : Sapeur Barré

AS 12 - Schneider M1 n° 61186
                   - Chef de char             : MdL Whitley
                   - Officier d'Antenne       : S/Lt Javary
                   - Radio :                     : undknown

Groupement n° X :

AS 31 - St Chamond M1 n° 62457
                   - Chef de char              : undknown
                   - Officier d'Antenne        : S/Lt de Pins
                   - radio                         : undknown

AS 33 - St Chamond M1 n° 62510
                   - Chef de char               : Mdl Soyer (killed by shell in the tank)
                   - Officier d'Antenne         : Lt Beylard (killed out of the tank)   
                   - Radio                         : Sapeur Barastin

Each radio team was from two men (One Officer and a sapeur-radio)
The radio was a Type 40-14



-- Edited by Tanker on Friday 14th of January 2011 11:27:05 PM

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James H


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I have found M. Serre. He was Renault's Head of Development and accompanied him to trials of the Baby Holt, and was also present at the meeting between L Renault and Estienne, as was Ernst-Metzmaier. It does seem that Serre and E-M collaborated at some point, but it was E-M who actually drew up the plans for the FT.

-- Edited by James H on Saturday 15th of January 2011 10:09:55 PM

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Ironsides


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Les moteurs d'aviation Renault
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Charles-Edmond Serre is mentioned fleetingly in this document a fairly extensive record of renaults aerial interests.....

http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/renault.pdf

on this site...

http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/index.php

Worth a look if your at all intersted in early Aviation....


Cheerssmile

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