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FR73


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Ok, I'm asking...
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Hello all, A burning curiosity of mine outside the realm of combat oriented figures, A crown piece to my 1/72nd scale corps project, does anyone know anywhere that would sell or be able to produce a 1/72nd scale Imperial German Army Marching Band. Either as mounted cavalry (with kettle drums) or as a regimental band.
I don't know if such a thing has ever been produced in this scale, and its a real grey area as far as modeling goes. but this forum has suprised me before. lets see if someone knows what I'm looking for.

Greetings, Josh


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FR73


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Any ideas?


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Paul H


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You could try to make contact with this guy,
Here........he is a bit expensive though
That´s all I can come up with ...sorry.

-- Edited by Paul H on Thursday 3rd of March 2011 07:00:00 PM

-- Edited by Paul H on Thursday 3rd of March 2011 07:00:29 PM

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FR73


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Thank you kindly for the information. We'll see what happens, Paul.

Greetings, Josh

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Ironsides


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Hi Josh, There is a 1910 Prussian band from Prieser no 13260, however its 1/87 scale so small, painted and expensive at around 160 euros for 47 figures... I think it would be very difficult to find now as its discontinued...
Alternative convert the old Airfix Guards band(also small) by giving them picklehaubs...

Cheerswink



-- Edited by Ironsides on Thursday 3rd of March 2011 10:19:01 PM

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 
FR73


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Your right, Its the Grail. Nowhere to be found.

Greetings, Josh

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FR73


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Well, to compose this email to the man Paul put me in touch with, I would need to know what to say. In the picture below, this is a set of molds for 56mm miniatures, but its an excellent reference to describe what would be needed. Also I'll post what all the molds consist of, and if someone is sharp with band instruments, please make corrections so I know exactly what to ask.

128 Bass Drum & Trumpet
129 Saxophone & Marching Unit
130 Trombone & Marching Unit
131 Tuba & Marching Unit
132 Saxophone & Trumpet
133 Cymbals & Flag Unit
134 Band Leader & Bugler
135 Trumpet & Snare Drum
136 Rifle Unit & Marching Unit
137 Horse & Rider

-- Edited by FR73 on Friday 4th of March 2011 07:02:59 AM

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Rectalgia


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Not sure if it's a help or a hinderance but to see a close equivalent of 19th Century - early 20th Century German and/or Prussian military bands in action, check out YouTube for Chilean military parades (Parada Militar and Ejercito de Chile search terms, for instance). According to nostalgic German site visitors they're not doing anything like that back in Germany any more. Aaagh ... the most strident clarinets in existence! I didn't know that was a marching band instrument. But it is all supposedly quite authentic. Yes, it is possible to (more or less) goose-step while playing a bass tuba. But you don't want to model that.:lol:

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kieffer


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well, the goose step is associated with Prussian military, but it's still en vogue in a few other states today, as it was in former Warsaw Pact countries.
I think it's dating back to the times of Friedrich der Grosse (Fredric the Great) when marching was brought to a near perfection, with time/pacing tables. A very efficient way to calculate the marching speed, that is when a regiment was thoroughly trained.
And of course, on parades you could show the audience the physical strenght of the boys in arms.
For toy soldiers: bands were very popular in the pre days of the Great War, Britains made a lot. Today very collectible. But the German company Elastolin or Lineol made them too I think. The latter even had three geese with helmets stepping on their logo.
It's called Stechschritt by the way.
Not much help as it's 1/35 etc. but Bronco has a set of marching Chinese ladies...

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Ironsides


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The......... Holy Grail ........

link now for ebay.com

Cheerswink

-- Edited by Ironsides on Saturday 5th of March 2011 10:14:07 AM

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FR73


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Well, Ok, so the grail can be found. but can it be displayed on American ebay?
Greetings, Josh

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Mark Hansen


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Very easy. Copy the item number and search using that.



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Ironsides


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Hi josh Ive changed the link above to ebay.com

heres the current catalogue see Miniaturfiguren H0. Maßstab 1:87. In historischer Kleidung

http://www.preiserfiguren.de/showpage.php?Katalogdownload&SiteID=29

Cheerssmile

 

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FR73


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Ok suppose I grab it off ebay. How much of a difference is there between 1-87 and 1-72? just asking so I don't get something I'll regret.

Greetings, Josh

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FR73


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Rectalgia: remember how you mentioned the Chilean Army parades? well here: this is on youtube, and it looks to be the real deal of an old Imperial Army Review. (Also shows the mighty Morsers in action during training for our Artillery buffs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqPnbjUh_g&feature=related

Enjoy All!

Greetings, Josh

-- Edited by FR73 on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 09:14:14 AM

-- Edited by FR73 on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 09:14:34 AM

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Ironsides


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Hi Josh heres a list of some Preiser HO sets on PSR they say 20-21mm height

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ManufacturerList.aspx?id=22

Cheerssmile

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FR73


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To be clear on the subject then, perhaps I should email PSR and ask them about it.

Greetings, Josh


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FR73


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Also, Ironsides, Remember the talk we had about Renegade Miniatures? They got back to me and said their pieces are far too large for 1-72 scale.doh

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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
              

Mark Hansen


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FR73 wrote:

Ok suppose I grab it off ebay. How much of a difference is there between 1-87 and 1-72? just asking so I don't get something I'll regret.

Greetings, Josh


Short answer: I wouldn't use 1/87 in a 1/72 diorama unless you want bantam battalions. 5mm difference in height will be very obvious.

Long answer: 25mm height in 1/72 roughly equates to a 6' tall soldier. 20mm height in 1/87 does the same. But 20mm in 1/72 is approximately equal to 4'8˝"*. You have well over a scale foot difference. However, this is not the end of your problem. As well as the soldiers, there are the instruments they carry. They will also be noticeably undersized. 1/76 can, in certain circumstances, fit into a 1/72 world (and vice versa). 1/87 in a 1/72 diorama is just going to stick out like a sore thumb.

*Oddly enough, the scale height difference between 1/72 and 1/87 is almost exactly the difference in height between myself and my wife. At least if I make a diorama with my family in it I'll know what scale to use for the missus!

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FR73


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Well alright then, Its settled, I'll have to have it custom made. As I asked previously, does anyone know what types of instruments are played in a Prussian band? anyone have a Musikkorps reference? below is what I can discern from the Preiser set, if anyone knows what else was played, please do tell.

-Band Master
- Drum Major
- Turkish Crescent
- Glockenspiel player
- Trombonist
- Snare Drummer
- Clash cymbal player
- Trumpeter
-oboist
-Baritone horn player
-Tuba player
-Piccolo player
-Bass Drummer
-French Horn player

Instruments not featured in the Preiser set but were actually played:
-Saxophones

Optional Bandsmen would include:
- Kettle Drummer (But I think this was strictly with cavalry bands)
-Standard Bearer

I know the uniform features of Prussian bands were first of all, I've never seen a pic of anything other then regimental bands in fieldgrey. the big bands usually always wore peacetime Dunkelblau. Another feature were the distinct cuffs, "Swallows nests" on the shoulders, and for headgear, either pickelhaubes with dress feather plumes, or if it was a Garde band, Grenadier Mitre caps.

Greetings, Josh

-- Edited by FR73 on Thursday 10th of March 2011 01:56:28 AM

-- Edited by FR73 on Thursday 10th of March 2011 02:21:23 AM

-- Edited by FR73 on Thursday 10th of March 2011 02:24:19 AM

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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
              

elbavaro


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Are you sure about the Saxophon? I can't remember that in German Imperial Army.

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FR73


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I've heard of it, but your right, I've never seen one. My list of instruments was drawn off A what I could make out from the pic of the Prieser set, and B a list of instruments found in a Bundewehr band. Now, granted, that is a 90 year difference, but its the only source I have. also see pic I posted.

Greetings Josh

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elbavaro


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I can't see a Sax on your pics. Where is it?

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FR73


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Yeah, your right... I looked too. Can't see one. your right. no sax.

Anything else? everything else looks like its there.

Greetings, Josh


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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
              

FR73


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what about kettle drums? were they part of a normal lineup?

Greetings, Josh

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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
              

Rectalgia


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I think Wikipedia gives some useful guidance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_band#Germany.2C_Austria.2C_South_and_Central_America

Things change over time but military bands not so quickly I think. Note in aboveTimpani (optional and for mounted band)so yes, kettle drums might be found in the band.

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FR73


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but probably not in a regular band, My guess is the kettle drums were only used for special occasions.

Greetings, Josh

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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
              

kieffer


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FR73 wrote:

but probably not in a regular band, My guess is the kettle drums were only used for special occasions.


German military music is all very much by the book: started in 1817 when Friedrich WilhelmIII ordered that:
Military music was divided into:
slow infantry
ordinary infantry and parade
cavalry (in 1824). With these came after 1945 the Heeresmarschsammlung. These compositions are still on the repertoire. Every march has a Roman number followed by an Arabic. So, I do think all bands were regular.
I think the kettle drum, as it is a drum that can produce different tones, is used depending on the composition or music piece.
European (on the continent) military music can more or a less divided into French influenced and Prussian style. The French introduced the sax in 1845 till 1848, then banned (one of their revolutions, scrapping 'royalist' inventions) and after 1854 the sax was back again. I think (I am not a musician) that, if you really want to know when the kettle drum is played in the German army, you have to look up the list of instruments used in specific marches, of which there are a few...

 



-- Edited by kieffer on Tuesday 15th of March 2011 09:20:51 AM

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FR73


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Hmm... well I left them out of my custom made band order oh well...

Greetings, Josh

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Rectalgia


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Just to keep this in the topic of Imperial German marching bands - I noticed this picture just now

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joerookery/5448905431/in/pool-greatwararchive

This and other photos of men of the same regiment in

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joerookery/sets/72157625565626922/detail/

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FR73


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Thanks, cool pics! All from Thuringia eh? My troops are Hannoverian. biggrin

The sculptor Paul H put me in touch with has already finished 4 musicians. God he's fast!

 

Greetings, Josh



-- Edited by FR73 on Sunday 3rd of April 2011 07:13:21 AM

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elbavaro


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Just beeing curious: How much is it in total and per figure?

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FR73


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He quoted me 10 euros per figure, 5 euros extra on each if I wanted them painted. around 200+ American Dollars. He has four done for me already.

Greetings, Josh



-- Edited by FR73 on Sunday 3rd of April 2011 05:37:32 PM

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Paul H


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They look good. Although they are expensive (relatively) you will be the only one who has these...anywhere  smile



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FR73


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I know. Among other things.... like say, An A7V Trencher I started to scratch build myself a few days ago, but that's another thread somewhere else soon I hope.

Greetings, Josh

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FR73


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Well, I'd say this thread is closed. Thanks again to all. With the aid of my new digital camera, I'll soon have pics up of my mighty X. Korps. also doing a few other inspiring scratchbuilds. I'll show them soon.

Vielen Danke for all your help Guys!

-Josh



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Rectalgia


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Just for interest, here is a picture of a regimental band in the field, 1914:
IllusWarNewsNov181914.jpg
From the Project Gutenberg EBook of The Illustrated War News, Part 15

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