Landships II

RCD · Lieutenant-Colonel

mkIV "Egbert"

Lothianman · Colonel

As a number of people will no doubt also chorus: the Egbert the rhomboid photo is almost certainly�very late 1917 or�1918, and in the UK (not Scotland as far as is known), as part of the Tank Bank tours to rob people of their hard-earned money till inflation had greatly reduced the value of their savings, sorry raise funds for the war effort.�The reason�I say this (apart from Egbert's known career in this line) is that the�goodwill chalk graffiti are an interesting feature I haven't seen before, and would be entirely consistent with this (especially if you can blow up the image to check they are in English and not, say, French), as does the typical 'crew' of an officer chappie to talk to the dignitaries and 3-4 tankies in their overalls to do all the real work, and the schoolboys in the background.

I'd say it was a postcard produced to mark one of Egbert's visits. Where I have no idea but the chalk graffiti might help if it can be linked to a photo of known location where the same or similar are visible. I'm only familiar with the Scottish tours in detail, but a look at the Friends of the Lincoln Tank CD on Presentation Tanks will give some info on Egbert as well as his final end, in West Hartlepool of all places till scrapping in the late 1930s.�However, he did visit several towns, I assume, so the PC could be any of them.�I'm not aware of any complete published detailed schedule for the English Tank Bank tank tours, and �Wales is also a different country altogether, and i have no idea if Egbert crossed Offa's Dyke, though from my own research I'm pretty sure (or more precisely have neither evidence nor other�reason to believe otherwise) that Egbert never made it past Gretna or Lamberton to Scotland.

Anyway, just a pointer. Do run a search of this website as well as its older alter ego - there are some Egberty hits on Google. See this in particular,

http://landships.activeboard.com/t9990890/ww1-tank-119-old-bill/

�

Can't help with the laddies in (mostly) solar topees, or the chappie on the horse ...

�

-- Edited by Lothianman on Tuesday 14th of February 2012 10:24:50 PM

RCD · Lieutenant-Colonel

Thanks for that information. Most appreciated!

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Egbert certainly did cross Offa's Dyke (i.e. came to Wales, for anyone with a map of Britain published later than the Dark Ages). I believe that chalking your name on the tank was also a con trick - you had to pay to do it.

Gwyn

Lothianman · Colonel

Just to add that I am coincidentally looking at Richard Pullen's 'The Landships of Lincoln', 2nd edition, p. 111. It turns out to have the same photo as you. The photo here is clearer than in the book and shows the original Egbert name as well as the obvious and brighter overwriting onto the photo (ie not on the tank). Pullen ascribes it to Scunthorpe.

Wikipedia/Google Images have the same photo which is dated 1918 - presumably the date of the sending of the original PC so the actual visit could be 1917-18 for all we know. Doesn't take us further. A quick check of The Times digital index didn't throw up anything for Scunthorpe and Tank, so no luck with the date.

My other first port of call for the tank bank tanks, because of contemporary postcards, Google Images, did not have any other Scunthorpe/Egbert shots (ignoring tank locos and the chap who takes his Valentine DD to the pub, as one does).

So perhaps the local library can help ... but don't confuse Egbert, a strictly temporary visitor and a he (ie a Male), with the final resting spot of this poor misnamed and mis-gendered lady, the Female presentation tank No 403 (as checked with the Friends of the Lincoln�Tank�CD):�

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62568511@N07/5694407800/?q=egbert tank

-- Edited by Lothianman on Friday 24th of February 2012 08:42:44 PM

-- Edited by Lothianman on Friday 24th of February 2012 08:43:27 PM

MK1 Nut · Hero

I am going to seem so sad for this.... but I think you'll find Egbert is standing outside a typical small stone station.�

The people on the left are standing behind a Picket fence and beyond them looks like a platform shelter. The building shouts Station and railway was the preferred form of transport for tanks over any distance.

Oh and someone's written 'Davies' on the sponson... so Wales it is! :)

Helen x

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Saturday 25th of February 2012 12:37:36 AM

Lothianman · Colonel

Not sad at all, please! That is actually a very good point, well spotted. Quite apart from helping check this particular photo, it�has made me�think about the nature of photos of tank bank tours and the presentation tanks, and therefore of possible bias in the surviving photographic evidence.

A fair proportion of the photos of the Scottish tank bank tours/presentations (I can't speak for others), off the top of my head,�seem to show them at stations either being loaded/unloaded or waiting around, presumably for it to be time to parade off to the town centre or waiting for the railway staff to come and load up (as seems likely in this case, as�the graffiti on it suggest).

It is likely that the photographers found those easier than the town centres, because the crowds were smaller (ignoring usual small boys) so they could actually get a clear view of the tank. (Some crowd scenes seem to be taken from upper windows so they could actually get the tank into the photo.) Also because the tanks were not going anywhere much at the time and were easier to photograph with tripod mounted kit? And simply because the tanks were known to be there at particular times?

One other point arises from your comment: knowing that the location of a photo is a railway station makes it a lot easier to trace the place of an unlocalised photo, though it's still not easy.�In this instance we have Scunthorpe cited as one location, though Pullen's book gives no source for this statement so we cannot easily check this and have to revert to the photo itself.

A cross check with�railway enthusiast�websites, and - in the hope it has not been modernised - the current station on Google Earth, and (in s\ome cases, anyway, the contemporary 6" or 25" to the mile�|Ordnance maps)�would be well worthwhile to try and find a match with the station buildings in this and any such photo. �One does need to bear in mind that many stations have been demolished and even more have lost their goods yards (which is where the tanks would probably have been emtrained/detrained), while some towns had�more than one station/railway company�... still,�even just checking the style of platform seats, gas lamps and awning edges in photos can help confirm or refute a hypothetical geographical area, given the individual design stdyles of railway companies. A good railway atlas of the pre-1923 grouping companies is indispensable for sorting out the tank tours.

Lothianman · Colonel

Dick Harley points out to me that the Scunthorpe tank (as the number 403 implies) is indeed a Supply Tank and not a female at all - sorry, hasty look and misled by the shadow effect, but smacked wrist nevertheless!

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Those Davies's get everywhere.

Evans