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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> References -> Combat debut of Renault FT - where?
Post Info TOPIC: Combat debut of Renault FT - where?
James H


Legend

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Combat debut of Renault FT - where?
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As any fule kno, and as any website and almost any book will confirm, "The first French engagement of the Renault FT occurred on 31 May 1918 at Ploisy-Chazelle, between Soissons and Villers-Cotterets."

Unfortunately, studies of current maps of France seem to indicate that there is not, in the usual sense of the expression, any such place. Ploisy and Chazelle are, according to some accounts, ravines, rather than a village. But Google maps indicate a village called Ploisy, with a population in 2009 of 84. There are quite a few Chazelles, but none in Aisne. The only Chazelle was absorbed by neighbouring Berzy-le-Sec - in 1791. So there doesn't really seem to be a place called Ploisy-Chazelle. However, amongst many other places in the area (Berzy-le-Sec, Villers-Cotterets, Saint-Pierre-Aigle, Dommiers, Vivières, Chaudun, and more), Bruno Jurkiewicz, in Les Chars Français Au Combat, does make one mention of Chazelle and one of "the ravines in front of Ploisy."

I realise this isn't the end of the world, but I think it's worth noting as one of those "facts" that appear to be so obviously genuine no-one bothers to examine them before restating them. Michel, François, or another of our French friends might be able to clarify matters. In the meantime, I'll have a scout round the area and see if there's a better way of putting it.



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Rectalgia


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The Americans re-fought that ground in July and seemed to think they were ravines (Ploisy and Chazelle, also Crise), presumably with corresponding heights, somewhere near the Soissons to Château-Thierry road and its intersection from a line to the west of Berzy-le-Sec.

"The corps commander (Berdoulat) expected much from his Americans. He required the Second Brigade to advance four kilometes and the First Brigade a little more than five kilometers to a map line from Berzy-le-Sec to Buzancy exclusive. In order to reach the objective, the regulars would have to cross two ravines, Ploisy and Chazelle which cut into the plateau and narrowed it a half kilometer in width, as well as a third ravine, Crise, closer to the objective. (The War to End All Wars: The American Military Experience in World War I By Edward M. Coffman).

Also: "Located on the edge of the plateau, Berzy had the Ploisy ravine on one side and the steep Crise ravine on two other sides." and "Although the regulars made two concerted attacks ... they were able to move forward only half the distance to their goal. This was enough however to gain a foothold in the Ploisy ravine and to reach the head of the Chazelle ravine." (from the same)

French tanks were available in this action too - delaying the start of the push the previous day with their preparations but doing good work "... the tanks were helpful until all were destroyed." (in the above advance towards Berzy-le-Sec on the second day).


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ALVF


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Hello,

Please, Gentlemen, see the french Forum Pages14-18, subject "Artillery".

Michel "Tanker" had writed some very accurate posts on this subject!

Yours sincerely,

Guy François.



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James H


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Sorry, Guy. Didn't mean to refer to you as François. Got you mixed up with François Vauvillier.

Thanks for the info, gents.



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Tanker


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Bonjour James,

The first Renault FT attack was done by 501° RAS/2° BCL : AS 304 ( Cne Lemoine) and AS 305 (Cne Delacommune)                              

Attack Sector :

Waiting position : St Pierre Aigle

Attack position  : Dommier's Calvary (South of Dommier's farm)  - H hour : 11h.45       

             AS 304 / North of Cravençon farm, North of Chaudun, West of Ploizy (just along the ravine, North/East from Chaudun) in support of 4° Tirailleurs from the "Division Marocaine"

             AS 305 / South of  Cravençon farm, south of Chaudun, south of Chazelle (just along the ravine, East of Chaudun) in support of 7° Titailleurs from the "Division Marocaine"

The "JMO" from 501° RAS, Division Marocaine, 4° Tirailleurs, 7° Titailleurs, are on website "Mémoire des Hommes".

A list of all the French tank's attacks is on Landships topic " the fisrt battle tank" and also on "Pages14-18".

Bonne lecture - Michel



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James H


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Purchased a current Michelin map of the Aisne area and chanced upon a 1917 map of the area for comparison. On the 1917 one, there's a Ploisy and a Chazelle, but no Ploisy-Chazelle. On the modern map, there's no Chazelle. The places that Michel mentions can be seen.

 



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