Landships II

MK1 Nut · Hero

RE: Woodworking issues!?!

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi,

A little update...

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TinCanTadpole · Legend

Looking excellent, Helen, you're doing a fantastic job there. A word of advice though: watch out for the bears in the RN jeep, they look like the sort to go for a joyride...

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi All,

Recently I had the good luck to come across a large scale Comet Tank build, he was using an online 3D Printing Firm for some of his parts. Anyhow, it gave me the idea of getting one of my track links printed, this would give me a nice model to show manufactures AND a comparison with my home done printed parts.

So I went to their site Shapeways�and uploaded a track link stl file. Once loaded you get to see a revolvable image of your model, this gives you a chance to make sure all is well with your design or upload. Then below is a list of different plastics, ceramics and metals, all with a price for your model in that material next to them. Just choose the one you like and purchase or leave it to think about.

The part has arrived and I am very happy with the quality of the track link they printed. I had it printed in a plastic with a rough metal finish, the track link cost me twenty five euros with postage. OK this is to expensive to use as a source for all the track, but like I say, it will give me a very accurate model to show around.

The holes will need a dill through them, as they will need to be perfectly round and smooth.

I have attached some photos of the track link with one done on the home printer.

Helen x

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-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Tuesday 12th of November 2013 11:21:51 PM

MK1 Nut · Hero

TinCanTadpole wrote:
Looking excellent, Helen, you're doing a fantastic job there. A word of advice though: watch out for the bears in the RN jeep, they look like the sort to go for a joyride...

�I love them bears xx :)

One of the Display Team members built an RC Jeep and was pursuaded to put crew on board. The bears can move their heads and wave. Kids love them!

To radio control them, he fitted a tube inside the body, into which the rc system slides. The build started with two bears and the use of a hacksaw it wasn't a sight for children's eyes.�

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi All,

I've not posted in a while, so a little update. :)

Yesterday I went to the Model Show at the Fleet Air Arm Museum with my boat friends, I had a good day boring people to death talking tanks all day. :)

The model is coming along nicely and starting to look a bit more finished at last. Unfortunately the latest collection of fiddly bits came only the day before the show, so only a few parts went on.

I'm also working on a master 3D file of Tank Fittings, that way I can then choose whether to print them in plastic or get them cast in brass. So busy, busy.

It looks like I will be going down a similar route to ArmorteK with the track. Using a conveyor chain system with track plates riveted to them. The only change I will try and make is using Offset Links for more accuracy.�

Helen x

Oh sorry about the photos, I will try and get hold of some of my friends ones as mine were a little fuzzy.

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Nailcreek · Captain

Wow .... have you given any thought to offering a printed "kit" on Shapeways?

MK1 Nut · Hero

Nailcreek wrote:
Wow .... have you given any thought to offering a printed "kit" on Shapeways?

�Thanks x

Yes thinking of putting a 1/16 version on there.�

I made up a paddlewheel design for a friend and it got me thinking. So I put the parts together to make the Tank's Cab and uploaded it... it came out at just under �30.�

Not sure how much it would work out for the whole tank.� confuse

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Last night I pushed myself to have another go at getting used to the 3D side of my Cad program, instead of using SketchUp because it's easy... and success! :)

Ok I only redid one fitting, but I now have enough knowhow to convert my 2D plans already on TurboCad into a much smoother and scaleable 3D model.�

So a 1/16 will probably be on the cards, just don't ask when right now. :)

�

I've attached an image showing why it was so important for me to get to grips with the 3D side of TurboCad. The coloured object is the new radiator emptying valve.

Helen x

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-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Wednesday 19th of February 2014 11:22:28 AM

Nailcreek · Captain

Thanks Helen ... much appreciated. I'd welcome a Mark I in 1/16th ... it would seem to be just the right size for this vehicle!

MRG · Major

Hello again,

great work Helen! It's fun to follow your progress.

1/16? Seems I have to hurry up with my Mark IV then!� biggrin

I am still at it - but as I am working on fiddly bits for the servo mechanisms to move the Lewis guns I have not much to show yet.

I got some friends involved in my project, I hope one comes up with the tap and die for the track plates and the other one will put the rollers and axis on his CNC lathe.

As I mess around with my old scooters during the warmer times of the year, the tank comes to a halt then..

Anyway, I got myself a ticket for the Tankfest - I must see that replica driving around.

Best regards

�

Martin

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi All,

I've been concentrating on computer work recently, so the model hasn't changed a great deal, but I thought I would put a few new photos up to keep the thread going.

Helen x

How ever hard I tried, I just couldn't get the neighbours cat to be impressed by the tank. :)

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TinCanTadpole · Legend

Shame about the cat, I thought you might have recruited a crew member... perhaps it hasn't realised that landships don't have to go in the water?

I do have a little question though: is the third exhaust baffle meant to be at a different angle from the other two? Looks as if it leans back a bit (pernickety, I know - the rest of the model looks great).

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hiya,

The rear baffle is attached to the 'L' Beam and so is raised on the front edge. Took me a while to realise that one.

Helen x

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TeeELL · General

Stunning work Helen. I would like to say that the foul suggestion that boys finally grow up at 43 is totally wrong. 20 years on from that and I still can't see 'growing up' looming on the horizon!
Growing old is obligatory, growing up is definitely optional.

diomichi · Lieutenant

Hi Helen,

this is a breathtaking work of your model tank.
I'm very impressed.

Cheers
Michel

Paul Bonnett · Hero

Hi Helen,
Great looking model so far, which finish will you go for ? A "tank" brown/khaki or a full Solomon job ?
Paul

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Paul,

I'm thinking that because it is a prototype model, maybe I will go for the grey with Russian writing. :)

First I want to get it finished a photographed in bare metal. With luck there will be a few more and those can be Solomon camouflage.

Helen x

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi All,

I've not added to this for some time, so a little update. :)

The Tank model as a whole is coming along slowly, I'm working on it when I can, but some parts just take for ever to do. I am though still enjoying it!

With luck I will have some photos of the aluminium track links I'm having cast for me, for now though I here is a few photos from the Southern Model Show I attended with my friends in the model boat club.

Helen x

TinCanTadpole · Legend

Looks lovely, Helen. Later Marks had a mud deflector plate behind the sole return roller the full size tanks had, to direct mud towards the hole at the top of the inner rear horn; did Mk Is have it too?

MK1 Nut · Hero

TinCanTadpole wrote:
Looks lovely, Helen. Later Marks had a mud deflector plate behind the sole return roller the full size tanks had, to direct mud towards the hole at the top of the inner rear horn; did Mk Is have it too?

Grrrr I keep forgetting the mud deflectors. Yes the MK1s had them, I just keep forgetting to fit them. I've marker penned them in to remind me. :)

MRG · Major

Wellwell, I am still watching this thread with the greatest interest.

I am very curious to see how the track issue gets solved - for my part I am still waiting for that friend of mine to come up with the track plate die...

Keep up the great work!

With best regards

Martin

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Martin, How's those lovely metal tanks of yours coming along? Well other than track obviously. Seems to be a common sticking problem with these builds. :)

This is the final design of track links I am having cast at the moment, they are far more scale than my earlier designs and more importantly, lighter. So some times delays can be a good thing.

My plan is to get the the track links on the tank and then show it to a local engineering firm who have metal stamping abilities. I think they will be more interested once they see the amount of work already put in and their chance to be a part of it. For engineering firms the amounts I need are small scale, so I feel the need to get their interest as being the major hurdle.

Having said that, a thousand track plates would only supply five tanks. So not a bad order if the costs are reasonable.

The Track Links are aluminium, I was thinking one millimetre steel for the Track Plates, do you think that would be thick enough, as I want to keep the weight down as much as possible. I'm sure aluminium would be to soft and bendy, even at a couple of millimetres.

I will put up some photos as soon as I have some Track Links. :)

Helen x

Schnuck · Sergeant

Hi Helen,

I used for my track plates (scale 1/10) steel t=0,8mm. The plates are lasercut, and I stampt them by myself. I will show some photos tonight, have to upload them first.

Only my track links don´t work right, they are not scale, and the function is not ok because of these missing bars. For your tank, steel plates in 1,5mm would work perfect.

regards,

Volker

MK1 Nut · Hero

Thank you Volker,

The laser cutting then stamping was my Plan B, as I hate monotones jobs and really hope I can get someone else to do that kind of job... terrible thing to say I know. :)

It is good to see though that option works and going by your photos, works really well. Nice job!

Looking at the bits of metal plate used so far on the model, I think you're right, it has to be a minimum of 1.5mm steel used on the track plates. No more than 2mm as I have made a 3d print of a track plate and that looks about right.

Helen x

Schnuck · Sergeant

...by the way, do you know this link?

MK1 Nut · Hero

Schnuck wrote:
...by the way, do you know this link?

Yes, it's been around a few years now I think. A really nice model, but with a few of the errors that seem to haunt models of MK1 Tanks. Round hatch in the wrong place, etc. Having said that, you could very quickly turn it into a very accurate model.

Schnuck · Sergeant

Here I will show you a couple of photos about my stamp and rivet tool.

With the rivet tool I can press 8 rivets at one time.

5(1).JPG 6(1).JPG

Here you can see my hand lever press, which I can stamp the track plates, and also can rivet them to the links.

Because of that simple track links without that leading latches, I will use these tracks for my new project: Little Willie wink

best regards,

Volker

MK1 Nut · Hero

Thank You Volker! That is impressive engineering and a lot of work.

The photos are really helpful, as they give me options if I fail to get them made for me due to high charges or lack of interest in small production run.

Helen x

MRG · Major

Ah, I am very impressed - and inspired!

Hello Volker, indeed this is the sort of device I was thinking of, just a lot more complicated. I was about to have the countershape eroded.

Your solution for the stamp and die is much simpler and seems to work very fine. For my 1/16 scale I would need 0,7 mm steel sheet but I doubt if I can get that anywhere.

Thank you very much indeed!

Helen, looking at your amazing track links, I can see a pin (or "wave") in the middle of the link. I believed the only pins the drive cogs could grab into were the connecting pins of the linking itself.

It is almost impossible to make out on original WWI pictures - and I can see no trace of a middle pin looking at the current museum photographs which show the link flanks, nor on the track blueprints. And I cannot remember having seen this when I crawled around Lodestar III in Bruxelles. Most intriguing! Do you have anything clarifying this? I am going to make my from brass profile but at least I want to get the physics right. (Oh my god, those tracks will be tedious work )

With best regards

Martin

CharlieC · Legend

0.7mm would be pretty close to 22 gauge sheet - although this isn't common it is available.

http://www.mesteel.com/cgi-bin/w3-msql/goto.htm?url=/info/carbon/thickness.htm

Regards,

Charlie

MK1 Nut · Hero

MRG wrote:
Helen, looking at your amazing track links, I can see a pin (or "wave") in the middle of the link. I believed the only pins the drive cogs could grab into were the connecting pins of the linking itself.
It is almost impossible to make out on original WWI pictures - and I can see no trace of a middle pin looking at the current museum photographs which show the link flanks, nor on the track blueprints. And I cannot remember having seen this when I crawled around Lodestar III in Bruxelles. Most intriguing! Do you have anything clarifying this? I am going to make my from brass profile but at least I want to get the physics right. (Oh my god, those tracks will be tedious work )
With best regards
Martin

Hi Martin, the wavy bit is of my doing, you may want to go another route for your build. :)

The real track links have a joining piece for casting and strength reasons. When I made the 3D gears and links, I realised I could fit in an extra pin and join it all up for even easier casting and extra strength at my small-ish scale.

I have attached a cutaway of my track link in CAD, also a real piece of track to help you out with your 1/16 scale build.

How many tanks are you making, was it three? I think we will soon need to start up a Care Home for burnt out tank modellers with nervous twitches! :D

Helen x

MRG · Major

Hi Helen,

thank you very much for that! Now I see..

Thinking about it, however, there might be an issue of the track link tilting on the middle hook when it goes round the drive cog and tension wheel.

Having only the two pins allows the curve of the wheels to go beyond the perimetre the two pins set, giving the link two resting points on the according bend of the wheel (the cog, basically, beeing a wheel too).

You might want to check that out before going into full production. I have whipped up a quick and poor perspective rewarp of the the photo of your cog and sort of fitted it into my scale plan (teeth and pins do not align here) of the Tracks around the tank, to show you what I mean.

I am sure the original developers would have included that feature otherwise, thats what got me thinking.

And yes, three sets of tracks are going to be hell

With best regards,

Martin

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Martin, middle pin follows the curve of the drive gear and is a few millimetres lower than the others. I would like to say my sharp engineering mind spotted the problem, but in truth it just happened due to designing the link after the cog. :)

Helen x

MRG · Major

Hi Helen...my bad, I never should have doubted you - actually obvious when seeing what you have achieved already...!

My smartassing failed miserably

With best regards,

Martin

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Volker,

It looks like I will be going with following your technique for stamping the edge on the track plates. One question though... Do I need that extra lip? I guess it without it the metal may not stretch evenly. Just hoping to avoid having to cut all those front edges off. If it has to be done then I can use someones bandsaw, so not so bad.

Helen x

Schnuck wrote:
Here I will show you a couple of photos about my stamp and rivet tool.

With the rivet tool I can press 8 rivets at one time.

Here you can see my hand lever press, which I can stamp the track plates, and also can rivet them to the links.

Because of that simple track links without that leading latches, I will use these tracks for my new project: Little Willie

best regards,
Volker

MRG · Major

Thanks to Volker, I have been able to make my trackplater! As I do not want to hijack Helen's thread, I have fully posted the results on my "counting rivets" report.

Happy!! biggrin

With best regards,

Martin

MK1 Nut · Hero

Finally made it to Bovington last Saturday, been over a year now, far to long! smile

The Bovington Model Show was on, so there was enough interest to get some of my boat club friends to the museum. For a boat club we can do quite a good spread of tank models. I had fun, talked Mk1 Tanks and 3D Printing all day. Had to disappear a few times, just to save me from loosing my voice. Although I also had a Female Sponson to go measure. :)

Whilst poking my nose around I noticed a tank periscope on display in a case. It was missing the top section, but is so rare I was just happy to see one.

Really enjoyed myself, already looking for the next excuse to go there again.

One poignant display is hung upon the wall by the MkII tank, it is a few recovered parts of Tank D6.

Helen x

herrmill · Corporal

Very nice, Helen. I bet the folks from Armortek were green with envy after seeing your work!

MK1 Nut · Hero

HELLPPPP!!!!!!!!

Sorry but my brain is going into melt down, need to make a decision on the track plates. confuse

The Track Plates come out at 86.5mm wide, 35.9mm long, on to which I'm thinking of adding 10mm to help with stamping/pressing the tail edge. The edge that is left after pressing will then be cut off with a bandsaw.

Anyhow, the thickness of plate I am thinking of using is 1.5mm, what I need an opinion on, is the pros & cons of aluminium and steel.

Basically the issue that is tormenting me, is this... Ali is lighter and that is always a good thing, but is the weight saving worth the difference in strength? Actually, at 1.5mm is there much of a difference in weight and strength. Plus one I just thought of, will the aluminium wear down quicker?

Oh and another thing... does Ali press ok like the steel?

Can anyone help please!

I think I need a cup of tea now.

Helen x

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Monday 3rd of November 2014 06:58:08 PM

MRG · Major

Hi Helen,

as I found out myself while experimenting on the track plates, aluminium is much easier to stamp, the weight is of course also a benefit - and stability against deformation while driving should not be an issue with the strength of material you would need.

Basically, it would also work for my needs - but - the thing I am most worried about is the resistance against wear. Drive with aluminium trackplates over sand or - much worse - concrete, there would be nothing left of the track plate protusions after a short while.

Thats why I decided for brass again. It is much heavier and more expensive - but if softened - still reasonably well to stamp. And it is still harder than Aluminium - and you can solder (or hardsolder) it with less fuss if necessary. This way you could repair the plates if necessary.

In fact, you can harden brass again after shaping it - by keeping it at sub-glow temperature for a couple of hours.

I am thinking of coating the brass with solder to obtain a grey metal colour. You can also get fitting paste for copper tubing at DIY stores which makes life easier - just paint the stuff on the plates and heat up. You achieve a desireable rough look on the surface as well. The tin makes an alloy layer with the brass, which is harder than the rest and the brass will not grind off that much when driving as aluminium would.

With some patina solution you can get for Tiffany Lamp making, you could darken the solder to almost black, which is probably similar to what the original plates would have looked like, although that would be a thin layer which would quickly wear off at the plate's edges and protusions.

Best of all would be steel of course, but shaping that is beyond the contraptions I have built so far. I hope this might help?

With best regards,

Martin