Landships II

James H · Legend

"L'Aube de la Gloire" in print and available.

Rob · Legend

Sounds very, very good - have found gems like this hidden away in museums before. Do the staff have a good grasp of english so an e-mail would be understood?

Morgoth · Major

Writing historical books in Europe in language other than English should be considered a crime a against humanity.

Albert · Brigadier

Yes, the book's only flaw is the fact it's not in English wink �I have it and it's great. I payed a lot of money for it, so 8 EUR (even plus shipping) is a bargain. Highly recommended! It's biggest value is a fact that it's probably the only book describing in detail use of French armoured cars in WWI (it's much easier to find info on French tanks, even in English). It would be great if this book was translated.

-- Edited by Albert on Tuesday 21st of May 2013 12:13:00 PM

James H · Legend

I've suggested they put it in the Bookshop (Librairie) section of the website.

Brash Timbers · Corporal

To second Rob's question: Have any native English speakers tried ordering from via email yet? My grasp of the French language is tenuous at best.

On a somewhat related note, I was unable to procure a copy of the Musee des Blindes "Le Char 2C" through traditional means (i.e. a bookseller on Alibris) and resorted to the morally-questionable choice of downloading a PDF I found hosted online. I would have rather purchased it through the museum if they had stock at the museum store.

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

I have received an encouraging response, in English, from a member of the museum staff. There may be some discussion necessary about a payment method, but it looks promising so far. wink

I will report developments.

d_fernetti · Hero

I'm very interested on getting a copy as well. Wonder if they would accept a credit card from Argentina...

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

They have not yet specified, as such transactions may be unusual for them. There are several ways of making payments from the U.K., and I am sure that your bank can cope!

d_fernetti · Hero

Hopefully. I have purchased things from abroad with my CC before, but I've never ordered from France. Maybe I can transfer the amount using PayPal?

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

That possibility has been included in my request.

smile

d_fernetti · Hero

Finally, I've got my copy of "L'Aube de la Gloire" on my mailbox today, thanks to the invaluable help of my "Contact in France". What a nice book, with many pictures I haven't previously seen, and many contenporary drawings. I have yet to read the extensive text, and that surely will need the use of a French dictionnaire and great doses of patience!
If you possible can, get this book. The subject isn't too frequent and while it's an economical edition (soft covers, black and white printing) it's worth the hassle getting it.
again, thanks for you efforts, French contact!!!!

d_fernetti · Hero

James!
To be precise, the delay had nothing to do with the gentlemen of the museum. What's more, the books (as I've asked for two copies) were personally bought by a friend and fellow Landshipper who lives in France, speaks French and has a good deal of "�lan Vital", that made my dealings with payment and such much easier than contacting the Museum directly and working up any kind of commercial arrangement.
Besides that, the local postal service has taken many, many weeks to deliver what in a normal country takes just two. I was quite worried at times that the parcel would never arrive to my mailbox, but eventually it did. My French connection was quick to grab the books and quick to mail them. It's just the Argentinian Mail Service what made waiting for the book an agony.

I've started reading the book. Very informative and quite well researched, has two editorial oddities that make terse reading a bit of a chore. First, there's the French habit of highlighting location names and personal surnames with FULL CAPS, which I find especially jarring, especially reading for the umpteenth time the words FRANCE, RENAULT and PEUGEOT, which as you may imagine, appear very often on the narrative.

Second, the unusual choice of not having photo captions under each illustration, but the explanation of each image included in the main text, more or less near the photo page. Given my partial ineptitude to read French, this results on a slow examination of the book, that perhaps it's not a bad thing after all. Confess gentlemen, how many of you when getting a new book with stunning photos read only the photo captions and leave the text for some time in the hazy future? I know I do. But with this one, I can't. I just have to find out what the cars and armoured vehicles are.

There are several drawings included, some 3 views (of indifferent quality) and several of what seems to be patent technical drawings of inner mechanisms (engines transmissions, tracks), armoured vehicles and its assisting mechanisms and armament.

A very curious and valuable book. Get them while they last!

D.
PS: Now I have to model a thing named "Diplodocus Militaris"!

-- Edited by d_fernetti on Wednesday 2nd of October 2013 12:53:58 PM

James H · Legend

I can't believe this. I meant to check on whether people had managed to buy the book from the Museum, but forgot until I saw Diego's post.

You've only just received it? It's taken four months? That's appalling. The Museum is desperate for money - I'm told its very existence is under threat - and they don't seem to be going out of their way to help customers. I suggested they put the book on their website, but that hasn't happened. In fact, nothing significant seems to have been done to the website for years.

Has anyone else managed to buy the book from them?

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

blankstare �Whilst I have to say I have never had any further communication from the Museum...

d_fernetti · Hero

...and the Tanks aren't exactly what you can call "the silent service"!
I'd say that they probably are understaffed and have trouble dealing with an efficient service to overseas. Receiving orders from abroad and sending packages is a very intensive labor, and perhaps this means complete lack of response unless you're in the actual place, or can contact someone who is related to the museum shop on the phone.

James H · Legend

Michael Taylor wrote:
�Whilst I have to say I have never had any further communication from the Museum...

You mean they just didn't reply? Beyond belief. The Museum is, apparently, broke. When I was there, there were three people in the office - more than in the exhibition hall. There isn't a cafe or anything, just a drinks machine, a snack machine, and 2 or 3 tables. When I asked if there was anywhere nearby where you could get something to eat, the three of them looked baffled and had to have a conference.

I said I would put the word out that the book was available. It wouldn't raise a fortune, but every little helps. And, as I say, I urged them to show it on the website, but they haven't bothered. What is going on there?

d_fernetti · Hero

This sure means that if we can start one of those tanks, no one would ever stop us! <insert maniacal laughter here>

Lothianman · Colonel

I wonder if it is simply because the Musee does not have a credit card facility, does it?

From the shop webpages it seems clear that you have to email them with what you want and find out what the price is including postage. Then you have to send them a cheque (presumably an euro cheque drawn on a French bank or payable into one, as they can't be expected to take the risk of charges and exchange rate fluctuations in a cheque in some other currency).

I don't know if this is any good for people in Belgium, Germany, Eire, etc., but it is a big problem for people outside the euro zone. For making dollar payments it is possible to get a bank draft or whatever it is called from a bank, which is very expensive in the UK - robbing *******s. The alternative is to make a direct electronic bank transfer. But the poor UK banks have to pay for their directors' salaries, or they'll chuck their teddies and resign and then where will we all be?, and for donations to the political parties at Westminster, the poor dears have conferences and drinkypoos to pay for right now don't they? So the banks charge massive fees for pushing a few electrons around. I was furious at the �25 (IIRC) charge last time I tried it, and that was within sterling and the UK - never again will I do that.

I find that for dollar cheques/drafts, Thomas Cook is far, far cheaper in the UK. But whether the museum would accept the euro equivalent draft from Thomas Cook I have no idea. And the fees are still not trivial. I have only ever done that for essential professional subscriptions (and have complained vigorously at the same time).

At the price they are asking, also, sending the books out on foreign postage is not a lot of gain for quite a lot of hassle for them - and perhaps some risk too.

Though it doesn't help either if they don't reply to emails (but could that just be the spam filter?)

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

The initial response, (a brief acknowledgment), caused me to expect further communication within a few days, and even an indication that they were unable to provide the book would have been better than nothing. It does not seem as if there is anyone there who takes responsibility or has the initiative to deal with any unexpected matters, let alone daily routines. This is such a shame with a collection of major importance. With other matters on my mind, I had dismissed the possibility of obtaining the book from the museum, despite initial hopes. disbelief �

James H · Legend

This is dreadful.�I know a few copies of a 8 euro book isn't going to turn things round, but you would think they'd do anything that might prolong the museum's existence, and their employment, for a little while. And not replying to people is bad business and�bloody bad manners.

FYI, Saumur isn't a particularly tourist town, and catering for visitors is a bit half-hearted. There is a bus station right in the town centre - very efficient and very cheap - but it's a bit difficult for the outsider, even if you speak reasonable French,�to�grasp the routes and signs. It's 3 or 4 kilometres to the museum, a brisk 30 mins walk which I did one day, through some parts that are not entirely lovely. The second day, a French couple who had heard us talking told us there was a bus that went almost to the museum. There's nothing on the bus or the bus stop to indicate that it will take you near there,�and it�actually turns off the main road about 400 yards before the museum gates, leaving you to walk the rest of the way.

I had a long chat with the people there, and later suggested that they might persuade the local authority to alter the bus's route so it drops people off outside the museum. It's only a matter of a few hundred yards. They could put a sign up at the bus station and something on the bus's destination board. After all, the museum is supposed to be a tourist attraction, so you would imagine they'd want to make it easy for people to find the place. They said it sounded like a very good idea and they'd pursue it. I'm not taking any bets.

In fairness, Bovington's online shop doesn't exude enthusiasm, so maybe it's understandable that Saumur don't want to make work for themselves, but if you're on your uppers anything's worth a try.

d_fernetti · Hero

James H wrote:
After all, the museum is supposed to be a tourist attraction

�Unfortunately, this is not always clear in the minds of Museum directives, and less yet to those of nearby towns who can decide what to do regarding bus routes and road signs. Perhaps the Museum depends on some military and/or cultural ministry, which is located far from the actual place, and this makes all decisions delayed and bureaucratic.
As noted in the own Museum website opening, the place is the result of the enthusiasm and stamina of an individual (the Colonel Aubry) and perhaps now has become a nuisance and a loss of money and material. This, of course, it's my theory,a nd the theory is all mine.
I recall that a few years ago I visited the wonderful "Museo de Armas de la Naci�n" in Buenos Aires, which has an incredible collection of weaponry and armor of all ages and countries (with a healthy number of WW1 weapons). They are placed in the most beautiful, central place of the city, and yet it's virtually unknown for all.
For the city government, it's completely foreign to their interests in the cultural area, preferring to advertise anything but something related to war or belligerent. For the National government -which currently abhors anything dealing with the military- it's a sort of shame to have the museum gloryfying military prowess in any form. And the military can't care less for a collection of rusting suits of armor and useless captured cannons, and they keep that open just because they can't properly dispose of it.

And the museum subsists because of the enthusiasm and hard work of their staff, which, too much occupied with their own subsistence, sometimes overlook the importance of proper communication or tourist information. Of course, this museum doesn't have anything resembling a shop! One of the main concerns of the museum is to preserve the actual collections and help historians and investigators. For all the years of the military coup government (from 1976 to 1983) the museum was closed and their windows obliterated with brickwork, for fear that leftist groups could take the weapons there against the army... this idiotic measure only served to ruin many elements of the collection due to humidity conditions (like the silk lacing on some Japanese armor) and perhaps to corrode many of the ferrous metallic intems inside.

So perhaps Saumur isn't that bad. They just are caught in a troublesome spot.