Landships II

Doggowitz · Lieutenant

Flak 88 as WW1 Gun???

28juni14 · Hero

Hallo Doggowitz!

The "88" story is entailed, but I shall attempt a brief summation. Firstly, the 9cm c73 was the first gun to be sized to 8,8cm. The same gun adapted by the Imperial Navy was termed L30 8.8 cm. It was designed as an anti TB gun, and served in that capacity on capital ships for decades. Naval studies soon concluded the hitting power to be totally inadequate, and a new designed weapon system appeared shortly before the outbreak of the Great War. This was the Krupp M1913 8,8cm SK L/45. It was an excellent weapon, and had replaced the puny L30 pieces on capital ships by the war's outbreak as an anti-aircraft weapon.

By the late fall of 1914 numbers of these guns were being emplaced along key Flander's coast positions and the North Sea. By October 1918 there numbers made them a highly effective piece of naval ordnance to dissuade allied air interdiction at key locations (Zeebrugge, Brugge,etc).

By 1916 the firms of Krupp and Ehrhardt(Rheinmetell) were given contracts to developed mobile heavy anti-aircraft guns for army use. Both firms fielded prototypes in the spring of 1917. Krupp sold the army 3 versions; 8cm, 8,8cm, and 10,5cm., while Rheinmetall built only in 8,8cm.

Their official normenclature was 8,8cm K Flak. Only six 10,5cm pieces were made. Some 78 of the Krupp 8cm versions were fielded, while more than 100 of the 8,8cm guns left the Krupp factories. The Ehrhardt records suffered destruction during WW2 bombings, but it is thought Rheinmetall produced some 60 examples of the 8,8cm gun.

The two guns differed cosmetically, but both designs were pedestal mounted on a 4-wheeled trailer, and pulled by zugmaschinen.

Most historians today credit Krupp with development of the Flak18, however I would ask you to simply examine photos of the two WW1 pieces .., and you will find the Rheinmetall version more closely resembles the famed WW2 gun.

If you would like further descriptions/pics of these three weapon systems, I can provide same, but I feel I may have exhausted the reader by now.

Treadhead · Major

Howdy guys,

I too was at least a little surprised to discover just how 'old' the German 88 was...I just recently came across a picture of one that was truck-mounted and used during the Spanish-American War. Been thinking about using it for SA war group build entry on another site.....

Tread.

Phil R · Captain

i have taken some photos of the german 88 WW1 gun that it is in the Imperial War Museum. It is in its original cammo colours. Peter the Great (Kempf) has the pics somewhere, or i have the hard drive from my old computer knocking around somewhere.

might be a version of the gun you're talking about?

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

I think that the FLAK gun in the IMW is a smaller gun, of a lesser calibre, say 7.7cm. The gun we are talking about actually LOOKS like a WW2 88 as well, at least from a bit afar!

28juni14 · Hero

To clear confusion, I'll try posting pics of the weapon systems in question. (Actually, I'll send them to Peter and he can post them.)

The IWM piece spoken of is indeed a Rheinmetall 7,7cm BAK. It was removed from a wrecked Ehrhardt platform truck that had been taken to the UK for evaluation.

Tim R · Hero

Here is the photos Jack sent Peter, He accidently sent them to me. This is his information from his email.

"As explanation, these two pics illustrate this important naval weapon I touched on in my recent response on the forum."

You will note it has a "vertical sliding breach block", a common feature with fixed ammunition German naval ordnance.
Clearly, you can see the weapons are crewed by Naval personnel .
This is the ordnance that the M1917 8,8cm K Flak was developed from. Further, it used the same ammunition as the naval weapon.
Jack Mueller
All the best
Tim R

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

Using the info given by Jack Mueller I have now put together two articles on the 8.8cm guns mentioned! They can be found in the "Artillery" section of this site.

Hope that this is OK Jack?

Lafettenheini · Colonel

After two years a original drawing of the 8.8 C /1906 which is an advice that the 8.8
was developed even long before the I WW .
Hope Jack Mueller read this lines - Jack this is the sliding breach block with self ejecting
shell system i am developping again for a scale use in 1:6 .
Pictures of the allready finished barrel are following soon.
But i must sadly tell that i have to modify the handling unit of the pivot-
lafette a little bit cause of the fine-mechanical details so that is more save
in fire case of cal.12/40 blank cartridges.
The Ehrhardt 7.7 is following next.

Lafettenheini · Colonel

Here another Original Drawing ( look at the writing type )
showing the Krupp 8.8 BAK .
It is the same type shown in the second picture Tim Rigsby placed in his post above .

28juni14 · Hero

Yes, the above drawing is indeed the 8,8cm L/45.� However, I must confess the first drawing is new to me.�� Obviously it uses the same rohr, but appears to lack recouperators.�� It's lafette is typical for ship-borne guns of the period, and was designed for vertical target engagement ( not AA ).�� I have spent the day searching for evidence of the guns adaption, and employment during the Kaiserliche,�but have not been successful.� I must conclude it was an experimental/prototype and not procured by the Imperial Navy.�

I am keenly interested in your machine-work�projects, and look forward to seeing each of them.