Landships II

SMK · Major

Mark I steering tail questions

Gwyn Evans · Legend

SMK

It's a horseshoe. In Britain a horseshoe is said to bring good luck, but it has to be positioned as on the tank, otherwise the luck will fall out. It's a mad British custom.

Gwyn

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi, This post should help clear some of it up... Master Box Tail and here.

Oh and Gwyn, in some areas the Horse Shoe goes up the other way, to stop it 'filling' with bad luck... we are an odd people. :)

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Saturday 30th of January 2016 10:34:46 PM

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Sunday 31st of January 2016 12:04:32 PM

SMK · Major

Thanks for the replies

Looking at the images ,am I right to assume the steeringcables went inside the hull t through the pivots of the steering assembly ?

greetz
Ronald

Gwyn Evans · Legend

MK1 Nut wrote:
Oh and Gwyn, in some areas the Horse Shoe goes up the other way, to stop it 'filling' with bad luck... we are an odd people. :)

Hell, that explains a lot!

SMK · Major

Had a closer look and found that the pulleys have a lower position in comparrison to the pivots
so where are the cables steering cabels coming from ?

see attachment .

is the cable routing correct ?

greetz

Ronald

-- Edited by SMK on Sunday 31st of January 2016 01:42:46 PM

-- Edited by SMK on Sunday 31st of January 2016 01:43:21 PM

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

The cable plan was provided by David Fletcher, from the Bovington Tank Museum.

I have not seen any photos showing the hydraulic cylinder shield fitted to tanks which were in action in September 1916. However, the shields can be seen in photos dating to November, so I suspect that they were installed in October in response to the experience of the first tank actions.

The horseshoe can be seen on a number of C Company's tanks including 504, 510, 512 and 746.

Many thanks to MkI Nut for the photo of the rear of the Bovington MkI.

-- Edited by Rhomboid on Sunday 31st of January 2016 09:49:27 PM

SMK · Major

Thanks very much for these pictures and the comment on the shields

exactly what I was looking for !

much appreciated

greetz
Ronald

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi, Sorry I have not been back to this yet. My only photo I have of a MK1 with its tail shield in place but I do not know the tank's number or the date it was taken. I will post it here in the hope someone can spread a little light on the matter.

From what I know the Shield was intended from day one, the lack of any evidence of use I would guess comes from them being unpopular. The tail system was an added complication that I expect needed more attention than it was worth. I've noticed in period photos some tanks still in use with their hydraulic pipes missing from the tail ram, the tail being used simply as a stowage area, probably soon to be removed.

My 'opinion' is that the Shield with all their bolts were to much of an hindrance to daily maintenance so removed probably very early on. It speaks volumes that once the tail mechanism was dropped the Shields were suddenly back in use.

At the moment I still do not have a drawing showing any clearer the hydraulic pipes but the ones already shown should enable a good representation.

Helen x

SMK · Major

thanks for your reply
greetz Ronald

Gilgamesh · Sergeant

Horse shoe orientation : The horse shoe is supposed to ward off the "evil eye", but farriers are immune to it - a consequence of working with iron & fire, so a farrier should display a shoe in the open end downward orientation (a Master Farrier, such as my late grandfather, should display 3 in a triangle). That is the Staffordshire (and thus indubitably correct) practice.

cmanning · Corporal

Random Question on Horseshoes and Mark Is:

Have any of you guys seen evidence of horse hoses being installs on the front and rear of the tank at the same time? I've seen a picture of C5 Creme Du Menthe with the horseshoe on the rear of the tank in the same up and open position. Just curious if the boys only installed one horseshoe or is there the potential for more (ie. front and back)??

http://www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2-McEwen-Tanks-at-Courcelette.pdf

Picture is on Page 9

Sorry, I'm still learning how to post hyperlinks on this forum.

Carmen

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

Helen, with regard to the photo which you posted upthread, it is from a glass plate negative in the Staatsarchiv Sigmaringen. It was almost certainly taken in 1918, when the Germans recaptured the Somme battlefield. The same wreck can be seen in the photo below (whose label is obviously incorrect). It appears to be the wreck of tank 760. This tank was initially assigned to C Coy., Section 2 (it would have been C7, C9 or C11), and it supported the Guards Div. on Sept 15 and 25, 1916. Photos of other MkI's taken on those dates do not show them fitted with hydraulic cylinder shields. The tank was returned to the Loop railhead on Oct. 1, 1916. C Coy. relocated north of the Ancre River at that time, however this particular tank is not listed on strength with the company on Oct. 22, 1916. In fact, it seems to drop out of the documentary record after it reached the Loop. D Coy., who relocated at the same time, seems to have handed their surviving tanks over the A.S.C. for refurbishment and eventual redistribution.

In the photo below, and in a higher resolution version of your photo, a small letter "A" can be made out on the front horns of the wreck (although without an accompanying number). It's possible that 760 was reassigned to A Coy. and remained with that company during operations south of the Ancre later in the fall of 1916. It was probably retro-fitted with a shield during that period, before being destroyed. I suspect that the wreck was the subject of William Orpen's drawing "HMLS Shell Out". From the limited examples we know of A Coy. tank names during this period, the company seems to have used the names of contemporary musical shows (Oh I Say!!!, We're All In It). "Shell Out" was a musical staged in 1915.

Alpha Six · Lieutenant-Colonel

Hello to all!

As I mean, I saw two or three years ago good picture C5 with horseshoe at the cab's front, but not sure (((

Now I find only this low resolution picture:

And once more misterious for me one:

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi, The empty reel/bobbin is sitting in the tray that sits on the tailwheel assembly could have been for barbed wire or possibly telephone wire. I'm sure I read somewhere they were intended to lay out comunication wire as they pushed the front forward.

Alpha Six · Lieutenant-Colonel

MK1 Nut wrote:
Hi, The empty reel/bobbin is sitting in the tray that sits on the tailwheel assembly could have been for barbed wire or possibly telephone wire. I'm sure I read somewhere they were intended to lay out comunication wire as they pushed the front forward.

Thanks, Helen, I remembered that read about the telephone cable in the Osprey's book by David Fletcher, as it seems to me.

-- Edited by Alpha Six on Wednesday 2nd of March 2016 08:15:00 PM

firsttankcrews · Major

Creme de Menthe paid a telephone cable from the recently captured sugar factory at Courcelette back to the original allied lines near the Pozieres windmill on 15 September.
see extract from report below

extract from report.jpg

MK1 Nut · Hero

Thank You Stephen, It's always good to know you didn't imagine something.:)

After reading the extract I suddenly noticed the tank only has one wheel at the back. Funny how you can miss even big things until you have your attention pointed in the right area.

Helen x