Landships II

Date: Apr 23, 2006

Artillery and more artillery...

Roger Todd · Legend

Hello Emir! It's great that the chaps here were able to help before! I'll put in my penn'orth about Krupp's Great Gun, for what it's worth... As far as I'm aware, it was (as you say) exhibited at the Paris Exposition of 1867, and was indeed a 1,000-pdr (I think the calibre was somewhere around 35-cm). However, again as far as I'm aware, it was built as a demonstration piece to basically show-off what Krupp could do - I don't think it was ever used in action. Attached is another engraving I found ages ago on the net (like you, I have a strange fascination with this gun). At home I have a later artist's impression, plus a crude scale drawing I did years ago if you're interested.

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:
However, again as far as I'm aware, it was built as a demonstration piece to basically show-off what Krupp could do

Krupp at this time was desperately trying to rebuild his and his firm's reputation after the scandal of his first breech loader used by the Prussians against the Austrians and the Russians in their little wars against the various Khanates in Central Asia. There was a design flaw in the sliding wedge breech mechanisim that could (and often did) result in a breech blow out and it has been said that theses guns killed more Prussians than Austrians. As a result Krupp had had to replace all the guns supplied to both the Prussian and Russian armies at no cost and pay out significant compensation (to the governments not the unfortunate families of the soldiers!). Indeed it was only because of the influence that Krupp had established in high places (doubtless reinforced by further pecuniary inducements) that allowed him to escape prosecution and his firm to survive. This gun may have been a way of saying to the world at large "we may be krupp at making light breach loaders but we can still turn out huge RMLs"

Date: Apr 24, 2006

Roger Todd wrote:

At home I have a later artist's impression, plus a crude scale drawing I did years ago if you're interested.

Thanks for the info Mr. Todd ! I should be very very happy if I could see your scale drawings. Could you scan them for me if it won't be a burden for you, please ? my e-mail adress is emirvonyener@gmail.com. This gun will be a relatively easy and fun build. I'm thinking the scale as.. 1/16

cheers !

Emir

p.s: I can't see your attached gravure. Am I doing something wrong ?

Centurion · Legend

Looks very similar - from an article on the siege of Antwerp 1914

Roger Todd · Legend

Emir, here are all the images I have of Krupp's Great Gun:

This is the one you couldn't see:

A modern drawing - can't remember the book:

An old preliminary sketch I did (pre-internet) to try to see what the proportions would be like:

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 20:07, 2006-04-24

Mark Hansen · Legend

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for the info Mr. Todd ! I should be very very happy if I could see your scale drawings. Could you scan them for me if it won't be a burden for you, please ? my e-mail adress is emirvonyener@gmail.com. This gun will be a relatively easy and fun build. I'm thinking the scale as.. 1/16 cheers ! Emir p.s: I can't see your attached gravure. Am I doing something wrong ?

Emir, you need to be signed in to be able to open the attachments.

Pavld · Corporal

Hello Emir, everybody,
I found following article with a picture in Scientific American, New York, May 18, 1867. I hope that it will help.

Pavel

Krupp's New Cannon for the Paris Exhibition.
Rhineland and Westphalia are undoubtedly among the most important provinces of Prussia, and one of their most important establishments is that of Mr. Krupp, which from the character of its work must be ranked among the first manufactories on the European continent.
This establishment will be represented at the Paris Exhibition by four or five steel cannon, ranging in size from the smallest field piece to the heaviest caliber, the one represented in the accompanying engraving being without rival the most powerful cannon in existence. This immense gun
is a rifled breech-loader of 14 inches bore, constructed wholly of cast steel, and weighs 1,000 cwt., and the cannon (intended for the armament of a coast fortification) consists of an inner barrel having several cast-steel rings or reinforces welded around it while hot.
The inner barrel, the most important part of the whole, weighs 400 cwt. and is wrought from a pig of 850 cwt., under a hammer of 1,000 cwt. The loss of its original weight is caused by the falling off of the head or mold end, by forging, turning and boring. The cast-steel rings weigh all together 600 cwt. The breech stopper is Krupp's own invention. A charge of gunpowder of one hundred pounds is required to project the shot, which weighs eleven hundred pounds. As our readers may imagine, the cost of such an enormous piece is somewhat high, and the gun is now valued at $100,000. Workmen have been engaged in its construction night and day for the past year, and only by the greatest exertion will it be completed in time for the exposition.
The cannon is mounted on a steel carriage forty feet long by nine feet wide, and weighing 500 cwt. The mechanism for maneuvering this enormous mass of metal is bo arranged that the proper elevation, declination, etc., can be given by one or two men with the greatest facility, and with such rapidity that a passing vessel can be aimed at with, accuracy.
As on the railroads no car could be found strong enough for transporting this cannon, Krupp was obliged to build an iron car for this especial purpose, which rests upon eight wheels, and which will take the monster to Paris and from thence to its final destination. The lightest cannon to be exhibited in Paris will be still heavier than the first cast Steel one with which, in 1849 Krupp first brought his invention of cast steel arms before the public. In order to test the Various improvements constantly being introduced respecting the material as well as the construction of these guns, trials are continually made in Krupp's establishment which are witnessed by army officers of all nationalities, sent especially by their respective governments to Essen. About 30 or 40 cwt. of gunpowder are used every month for these trials.
References to the Engraving.�A B C, rollers; D E, 'pivot plate; F, cross section of barrel through trunnion, i; Gr, "bore; H, longitudinal section of caat steel shot with leaden -coating; I, cross section of same; a b g h, barrel; c d e f, reinforce ; i, trunnion; k, breech stopper; l m n o p, carriage;
qrstuvwx, railing; y, crank communicating with mechanism by which the gunner moves the cannon, carriage, and frame, his position being upon the step, g.�Leipzig Allgem. Illusir. Zeitung.

Roger Todd · Legend

Absolutely splendid, Pavel!

I had read somewhere that it was designed as a coastal defence gun, but can't remember where - that drawing certainly bears this out.

So, Emir, how will you model it? At the Exposition, or on its coastal slide carriage? And keep us posted!

Kapudan Emir Effendi · Private

Dear friends,

I thank you all for your amazing contributions. And, yes Pavel, you did an amazing job by finding the article and picture. My greatest thanks ! I wish I could build the gun in its steel coastal base but this completely surpasses my talents. My reason for selecting this gun particularly as a modeling subject, was its simple shape

I will build it in its exposition form but I may also put the gun on a sliding rail too (like a dahlgren gun) I will use wooden rod portions of suitable diameters for each section (band) of the gun tube. the carriage will be from wood also and I will add aftermarket 1/16 nuts and bolts to the places indicated on the drawings. Aftermarket RC auto gears of suitable size can provide me the two aft elevating gears. Only the breech is causing me to think for there is not a total back view showing full details. Anyway, it will be a fun project (but I can't start it before the end of june anyway, I have to graduate from university first

)

Roger Todd · Legend

The breech is a piece of cake, Emir (actually, it's a large steel casting, but you get my drift...). As it's a bog-standard Krupp sliding block job, behind the breech block ('k' in Pavel's drawing) there's just a hole. I've been thinking of making a model of it myself, in braille-scale though, for the same reason as you - it's a relatively simple weapon!

Anyway, let us know how you get on, I always like seeing other people's models.