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Post Info TOPIC: Schneider CAs in China . . . ?
James H


Legend

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Schneider CAs in China . . . ?
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A recent alteration to the Wikipedia article on the Schneider CA claims that it saw service with the Fengtian Clique during the Warlord Era. Neither of those things means anything to me, but the source given by the "editor" is Jowett, Philip S. (2010). Chinese Warlord Armies, 1911-30. Pub Osprey, 2010.

I found the book on Scribd, and this is what it says:

According to an English military observer named Impey who was in China in 1925, Chang Tso-lin had a number of Renault FT-17 (sic) light tanks and even Schneider heavy tanks; there is photographic evidence for the former serving with the Manchurian Army, but not the latter.

I'm sure you're as sceptical as I am, and this is hardly concrete evidence, but I wondered if anyone had any info. The only thing that occurs to me is that Mr. Impey might have been confused by the brace of tanks never definitely identified but appearing to show what might be the Studebaker Tank with possibly Chinese troops.

  The Dogmeat General's Tank — China's First Domestic Tank? - Sino Records

 



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Tanker


Field Marshal

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Bonjour James 

" A recent altération to the wikipédia article on the Schneider CA "

Yes, (This page was last edited on 31 March 2023, at 05:22 (UTC).) and, if this guy, probably read Schneider's topic from "Pages 14-18", he has not again all understood to the film !

For exemple, In "Souain experiment", the Caterpillar Holt was not at all modified ! Jules Breton and Brillié were present and it was not a demonstration to the French Army. Of course General Pétain was not there !

Photos from Souain experiment (9) was in Fort d'Ivry photos, from ECPA-D.

In December 1914, Charles Fouché was just Corporal and Jacques Quellennec (with Charles Fouché) had no tank project, but just plans from caterpillar Holt, given to Brillié.

Other problem with photo . . . . . . 

                                    Châssis d'expertise du S-Lt Charles Fouché (01).jpg

I have worked on the French wikipédia, and don't do it again on other versions . . . . .

For the Schneider in China, it's probably a blow from the Martiens !

Bon Week-end - Michel



-- Edited by Tanker on Friday 31st of March 2023 12:32:07 PM

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James H


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Merci, Michel.

I have found Mr. Impey and his source:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/genealogy/records/lawrence-impey-24-61f914

The Chinese Army as a Military Force. Lawrence Impey, Tientsin Press, 1926 - China - 56 pages

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Chinese_Army_Considered_as_a_Militar.html?id=VjNdNQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

From page 26: "(something) went up to Chinwangtao and came back to Tientsin without being used. Since this photo was taken Marshal Chang Tso-lin has secured delivery of a number of French tanks of Schneider and Renault manufacture."

In 1919 France had left Renault FT tanks in Vladivostok after the joint Allied intervention, and Zhang Zuolin (Chang Tso-lin) soon incorporated them into the Manchurian Army. (Wikipedia) But no photos of the supposed Schneiders.



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Jim Lawrie


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Hi, I'm quite new here.

The Fengtian Clique was the most northern Chinese warlord force abutting Russia and Manchuria. It had the best industrial base of the CHinese warlords and was heavily supplied by the Japanese, almost acting as a client state until around 1926.

When the French pulled out of Vladivostok they left their armour behind and the Japanese gave these to the Fengtians along with some British armoured cars, I think Austin Mk IIIs, Lanchester and Rolls Royce but that's without checking my sources. They also scooped up some White Russian armoured trains, as well as Austin-Putilov and Garfield-Putilov armoured cars, after the Japanese withdrawal from Russia so all in all they did quite well.

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James H


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Thanks for the info, Jim.



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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
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