Landships II

vesubius · Private

gun identification needed

28juni14 · Hero

1) Looks like an Italian 149mm M1900 gun.

2) Appears to be the( French ) 194mm M93 on a railway mount.

3) French naval ordnance; 350mm. Note the multiple projectile feeding tray for rapid reloading.

SASH155 · Major

1. If I could read the markings on the breech ring, I believe we would see that this is in fact a French 164.7mm Mle. 1887 (or one of the later models) naval gun on a pivot mounting for field use, not the Italian 149mm M-1900 Armstrong gun. Other 164.7mm guns (the Mle. 1893/96 for example) were mounted on railroad carriages. Other 164.7mm naval weapons used in the field were the Mle. 1891, and the original Mle. 1893. The Mle. 1887, Mle. 1891, and the Mle. 1893 were also used as rail guns and were all designated "Materiel de 164,7mm T.A.Z. mle. 1887, 1891, 1893, or 1893/96" (the last model had an L/47 ordnance instead of an L/45 ordnance and was of simplified construction). T.A.Z.= Tous Azimuts, or all azimuths.

2. A 164.7mm T.A.Z., model of ordnance unclear.

3. Can't tell, a 164.7mm or a 194mm?

4. and 4. the "Materiel de 370mm modele 1915 sur affut-truc a berceau". Mount made by Batignolles, Schneider naval ordnance from the pre-dreadnoughts "Charles-Martel, Bouvines, Amiral Trehouart, and Carnot.

5. Possibly the same 370mm weapon or its slightly larger cousin the "Materiel de 400mm modele 1916 sur affut-truc a berceau" which employed the same carriage as the 370mm mle. 1915, but used a bored out and truncated 340mm mle. 1887 naval gun.

Roger Todd · Legend

SASH155 wrote:
4. and 4. the "Materiel de 370mm modele 1915 sur affut-truc a berceau". Mount made by Batignolles, Schneider naval ordnance from the pre-dreadnoughts "Charles-Martel, Bouvines, Amiral Trehouart, and Carnot.

A Pedant writes:

Charles Martel, Bouvines, Amiral Trehouart and Carnot all carried 305mm guns (Charles Martel and Carnot 45cals, plus a brace of 274mm guns apiece, the half-sisters Bouvines and Amiral Trehouart 35cals). However, the earlier Amiral Baudin and Formidable (sisters) carried three 370mm guns each.

According to Gerhard Taube in Deutsche Eisenbahn Geschuetze, the 37-cm howitzer (of which he reproduces a photograph which resembles the photo posted at the start of this thread) was a 37cal weapon. However, the Amiral Baudin's guns were only 28cal.

Therefore, are you saying that the 370mm gun used cut-down and re-bored 305mm barrels from the vessels you mention?

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 22:13, 2007-03-18

SASH155 · Major

I stand corrected about the 370mm's origins; I double checked Tony Gibbons and you are right it was just Formidable and Amiral Baudin which mounted those weapons. I based my earlier piece on Stephane Ferrard who is not really a naval authority.�

Roger Todd · Legend

Fair do - but I've just edited my previous post with a possible get-out clause...!