Landships II

Papertiger59 · Sergeant

Tommy's Helmet when on march.

Rectalgia · Legend

I don't think it was usual to change the order of dress during the day - if they were on the front or moving to it or from it I suspect it would be steel helmets all the way.� However, here is a picture of some King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in mixed dress and some apprear to have hitched their steel helmets to their packs (easy enough to do, just thread one or both pack closure straps through the helmet liner).� I believe I may have seen pictures of US troops carrying their helmets that way, while wearing cloth caps.

Papertiger59 · Sergeant

Thanks ! It helps a lot ! Chris.

kieffer · Commander in Chief

thinking of puttees (see Steve's Bandoliers topic) these helmets must have been not very handy too, I think there were complaints on behalf of the interior. Problems when running I presume, it has a tendency to shift even when the chin strap is tight.
Anyhow, some photographs of running soldiers, German or Allied, show men holding one hand on the peak to keep the helmet straight. I guess only the later 'paratrooper' solution with straps behind the ears are a bit better.

regards, Kieffer

Rob · Legend

I've ran with a WW1 British helmet on plenty of times and had no problem with it shifting around whether the chinstrap is under my chin or behind my head - it'll shift if you have a liner that is too loose, but if it fits well (which it should, the Brodie liner has a superb design where you can add and remove or just move around inside bits to the liner to make it fit the size and shape of your head)

As for puttees, although they may not look it, they are very comfortable too, and extremely useful

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

A detail view from an illustration by Mike Chappell.

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Rob,

I guess I was speculating a bit too much then. Based upon the story of the first brodies, accordingly to general Plumer not a satisfactory model, having a slippery liner.
The following model must have been better, and in 1917 some more improvements had been made by adding rubber padding on it. I guess the design must have been efficient enough as the model was still used in ww2 and in some countries even longer.
The Belgian army, or the navy I think that was used the model till the sixties if I am correct.
But the comfort of every steel helmet is a relative thing I think. Budgets are playing a role too, I heard stories of officers purchasing privately better and more comfortable liners.
Puttees: I heard pro's and cons. Dutch troops in the former East Indies were rather happy with them as they were protective against insects. And if they were winded correctly there weren't that much complaints. The binding had to be learned though, and took a bit time. What I heard, they were mainly considered as a cheap budget thing for privates. Officers again buying a better quality for themselves was practice.
But, unlike you, I have no personal experience with puttees, so you're the expert on the matter. As for the helmet, I only played with one as a schoolkid, always wondered how real soldiers kept the thing straight without waggling. But that must have been the liner as you mentioned.

regards, Kieffer

Rob · Legend

Hi Kieffer, the first Brodie's definitely had a different liner, as well as that they had a very shiny apple green finish, which is why the sandbag covers came in very quickly, and in photos of men on the Somme almost everyone seems to have one on, not just to break up the shape but also to get rid of the shine.

Puttees are awful to those who haven't used them, and when wearing them for the first time they can be uncomfortable if put on wrongly - however they soon 'shape' to the shape of your legs, so as long as you wear the right one all the time (I stuff my right legged puttee into my right boot etc) they're comfortable and fit the shape of your leg very well

kieffer · Commander in Chief

a little of topic, not a Tommy on the march but two Dutchman standing.
But, with puttees and a Brodie look-a-like helmet. The Dutch started with an order of Adrians, were not happy with these and produced their own model. I think they started in 1916.
The type was known as M16 and the improved version was the M22. In 1927 they introduced the NM, or New Model which stayed in service till 1940.
But budget cuts were severe, so an amalgam of older and newer models were used.
The Dutch home guard even used German ww1 helmets, rather dangerous when war broke out in 1940.
The gentlemen carrying the Spandau and the AA tripod are depicting the 'character' of the Dutch forces I think, as a military carreer was not very prestigious unlike Germany or Britain and conscription was unpopular. An army of civilians and housefathers more then a professional armed force. Especially the tripod carrier looks a bit unhappy, his comrade trying a more martial attitude.
Carrying these helmets otherwise: they had a little slot above the rim, the helmet could be strapped on the rucksack.

Rectalgia · Legend

Another slight variation on the slinging of the tin hat with p1908 webbing is seen at:
http://www.grantsmilitaria.com/militariaphotos/militaria_images.asp?key=16

Prompted by coming across yet another slight variation in the book Soldier by RG Grant published by DK 2011 (helmet slung on a backpack of slightly lesser width, imagine two Xs, one atop the other, the helmet fits into the diamond formed in the centre, top and bottom legs of the respective top and bottom Xs are abbreviated as they pass over the top and bottom of the backpack). That one is not inconsistent with the picture posted by Gerald (Rhomboid) above, maybe just showing the detail of both the top and bottom crossovers of the two webbing straps - but the grantsmilitaria picture does not show a crossover at the top.

Oh Gawd, I'll be counting rivets next!

Steve

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Monday 23rd of January 2012 10:09:02 AM