Landships II

Ironsides, mate, you're a star!

Photos like this:


And judging by what our mutual friend said, the Waterloo 1815 WWI Italian Infantry should be suitable for a fairly easy conversion. And as that set is not too useful as Italians...





-- Edited by PDA on Monday 3rd of January 2011 07:27:32 PM

I have scan read the book, and it is excellent. It covers just about every aspect of their lives; life in USA and in Europe, labour divisions, fighting divisions and the honours they were awarded, medical staff, females working at home (in America), racism (extreme in most cases; 100 lynchings in America in 1917 and 1918), and their stoicism in rising above it, jazz, how the French gladly received them, and many individual's stories. There are small sections on British black troops, and French black ("Colonial") troops, and on the German's reaction to black troops.

Really, an amazing book, that reads very well; the language is not too dated, and the style is similar to modern day history books.

Thanks again, Ironsides.

Very nice, gents. A point that L Mirouze makes is that the Colored regiments wore either puttees or an improved version of the earlier canvas leggings, the M1917 with side lacing and an increased number of hooks and eyes. That seems to be borne out by the photos.

A little while ago there was a thread on the HaT Forum about black troops in WWI. Someone posted a photo of a black soldier in German uniform on the Western Front, and I offered one of a black soldier in the 1914 Belgian (European) uniform. One assumes they were from those countries' respective colonies.  It had all the makings of an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, either because someone overstepped the mark or because the moderator had one of his occasional attacks of hypersensitivity, the entire thread disappeared. I think they might have taken exception to a mention of the fact that German propaganda of the time pointed out the paradox of Blacks fighting for freedom abroad whilst enjoying very little at home, 50 years before Vietnam.

I hadn't heard about the appalling treatment of black American troops until I read about it in a book called The American Century by Harold Evans, former editor of The Times.

From what little I've read so far, race issues run throughout the book, but are most definitely not the subject. It seems to be a recording of achievements, rather than accusatory or somesuch.

Basically there are two types of books I enjoy (on WWI), and I suspect many others here feel the same way. I like "technical" books, such as those from Osprey, that show what was used, where, and what it looked like, e.g Osprey's Tank Mark I, or Armored Units of The RCW, or War Cars. The other type is "what was it like" books, e.g. Tank Warfare, or The Boilerplate War, or Tanks and Trenches; books that have diary entries, or the recollections of veterans.

This book, that Ironsides has found, has both the technical and the "I was there" aspects. And I've only just started!

Me? No. In a word. Rather gloomily, I believe the war changed nothing (speaking solely of people's attitudes towards other people). Even to this day, there are still racist idiots amongst us.

But, I would still like to stress that this is a history book. It sets out to make no social comment; the reader can do that. This book can be read as tales of derring-do from a group of heroes, and it is very enjoyable when read that way.

Hughbearson wrote:

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Do you reckon that the participation of black U.S troops in the war would've altered the way much of the white American middle class thought of them?

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I reckon not, though there would of course be exceptions. It is hard enough under the best possible conditions and you can't get much change happening in a segregated society, I think. One indication that attitudes didn't change much - check out the story of the "Tuskagee Airmen" from WW2. The 332nd Fighter Group and the 477th Bombardment Group of the U.S. Army Air Corps, crewed by African-Americans. By all accounts they had a tough time gaining acceptance and respect. Not from their clients though, from what I hear. There's a story that U.S. bomber formations would specifically request the 332nd as their fighter cover, such was their reputation for effectiveness.

Ivor's point about the whites in the U.S. being apprehensive about the blacks receiving military training. Of course that was happening even before the war and don't think for a moment that those same recipients of that training were not aware of their capabilities and potential. But they were men, rational and moral people. And a minority. Perhaps it speaks volumes for their character that they defied the expectations of their petty detractors when they did NOT organise and arm themselves and turn a disciplined assault on their oppressors. Were the situation precisely reversed I wonder how it would go?

And you might be surprised to hear that during the U.S Civil War, the Confederate army had more Black people serving in it than the union army. Also, while the troops were seperated by skin tone in the Union army, the Confederates had all their troops mixed. Almost ironic really...

I'm sure I've seen a pic of a Native American in WWI, in uniform and with a Mohawk-style haircut. A bit of googling reveals this remarkable info - Codetalkers were used in WWI.

http://choctawcodetalkersassociation.com/index.php?page=history

"It is estimated that more than 12,000 American Indians served in the United States military in World War I. Approximately 600 Oklahoma Indians, mostly Chotaw and Cherokee, were assigned to the 142nd Infantry of the 36th Texas-Oklahoma National Guard Division. The 142nd saw action in France and its soldiers were widely recognized for their contributions in battle. Four men from this unit were awarded the Croix de Guerre, while others received the Church War Cross for gallantry."

This is an article that addresses both the military and social aspects of African-American service in WWI. Grim reading.

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwi/articles/fightingforrespect.aspx