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Post Info TOPIC: Hundetrain
alfisherjr


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Hundetrain
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The two attached images last night are of "hundetrains" and are something I'd never seen before.  Does anyone have any details . . . they'd make nice models.  The first is from http://www.heeresgeschichten.at/, a most interesting site; unfortunately, I neglected to write down the source of the second,

 

Al



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K-Flak


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Interesting pictures. I collected and translated some info from German sources incl. German Wikipedia and hope it helps to answer your question:

In WWI Austria-Hungaria used Kriegshundestaffeln (War Dog Squadrons) for different tasks. At the Southwest-Front in the Alps squadrons of dogs supplied advanced posts in high alpine terrain with water. Dogs of Kriegshundezugabteilungen (Zug, verb ziehen, means to pull; Abteilung = detachment) were used to pull infantery guns or supplies. Dogs were used as Meldehunde (bringing messages to frontline units) too. Other dogs were used to find and help wounded, injured and soldiers buried alive by avalanches (Sanitätshunde).

The k.u.k. army had a breeding station for war dogs in Sarajevo and Kriegshundeschule (School for war dogs) in Vienna (Wien-Währing), founded in 1914.

 

The link below displays transport dogs in Transsylvania (today in Romania):

http://oesta.gv.at/site/6781/default.aspx

 

An article with name Die Kriegshunde der k.u.k. Armee was published in February 1995 in Das Militärhistorische Archiv. I don´t know the content.

 

By the way: Hund = dog, Hunde = dogs (plural).

 



-- Edited by K-Flak on Friday 16th of December 2011 10:27:29 AM



-- Edited by K-Flak on Friday 16th of December 2011 10:30:14 AM

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Tankcommander


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Other Pic's and article of hundetrains (Traineau de chiens):

Hundetrain Kuk.jpg KuK Train

France.jpgFrench

History of "les traineaux de chiens" in Alaska during WW1 (French site), with photo's

http://chiensdetraineau.free.fr/histoire/chron_WW1.php:

DJ



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alfisherjr


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Many thanks for the information!  Does anyone have information or drawings of the cart and harness?

Al



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Rectalgia


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Tankcommander wrote:

History of "les traineaux de chiens" in Alaska during WW1 (French site), with photo's

http://chiensdetraineau.free.fr/histoire/chron_WW1.php:

DJ

 Good heavens TC - I never knew anything of that!  Thanks!



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kieffer


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K-Flak wrote:

 

 Dogs of Kriegshundezugabteilungen (Zug, verb ziehen, means to pull; Abteilung = detachment) were used to pull infantery guns or supplies.

 

Hi K-Flak, I'm not sure if that's correct. A 'Hundezug' I think is the word for a dog's squad, the word Zug meant here the military way. But I'm not sure if I'm correct either...because of the word Abteilung, which is a unit too. The Duden dictionary says 'dem Bataillon entsprechend', well what can you make of that.
regards, Kieffer


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James H


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I'm happy to be corrected by a native German speaker, but I should have thought that in this context zug is best translated as "draught," as in "pulling."

It also means "train" (as in railway), but I suspect the phrase breaks down as "war dog draught section."



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K-Flak


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Hi Kieffer,

being a native German speaker I have rather problems with the correct English term than with the meaning of German words.

In the term "Hundezugabteilung" the word "Zug" can not mean something like "dem  Bataillon entsprechend" because we have the term "Abteilung" which is standing for the kind of military formation as you noticed already.

The Duden is not a good source if it comes to military terms. A "Zug" is a sub-formation of a "Kompanie" (infantry) and therefore not comparable to a "Bataillon" in size, meaning and importance. 

The term "Zug" in this word is really describing what the dogs are doing on the photographs. If native Englishspeakers say "draught" is fitting better to "Zug" than "pulling" than it is O.K. I simply missed the word "draught" in my vocabulary.  So, James is correct with his suggestion.

For me a "dog's squad" is a "Hundestaffel" in German language.

Anyway. The topic is an extraordinary one. And we did not even mention "Minenhunde", "Panzerhunde" and other services of dogs in war here.

 

 

 



-- Edited by K-Flak on Monday 19th of December 2011 05:34:13 PM

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alfisherjr


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Here are a few more images for discussion.  Aprreciate the responses to this thread . . . keep 'em coming!

Bosun Al

 



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kieffer


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Hi K-Flak,

isn't Hundezug a noun (Nomen) then, like Hundestaffel? I would think that 'Zughunde Abteilung' would be more logic, but I am not a German native speaker either so I am pleased to be corrected!

regards, Kieffer

 



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K-Flak


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Hi Kieffer,

language is not always logic and in fact they could have used the term "Zughunde-Abteilung" as well! German language is flexible enough for both. The word "Zughunde" would focus a little more on the dogs, the term "Hundezug" more on the process of pulling with dogs.  "Hundezug" is a kind of equivalent to "Eisenbahnzug" (train).

If "Zug" would mean the military term (like platoon) then the German word "Hundezugabteilung" would translate into "Dog platoon section". That makes no sense! 

Suddenly we would have two words for a military unit (platoon and section) but we need only one. Furthermore (and this is more important), we would lose the description of the specific task of the dogs: to pull loads.

Another example is the German WWI term "Kraftwagen-Zugflak" for mobile 8, 8.8 and 10.5 cm Flak. Here "Zug" is not meaning a platoon of mobile Flak. The word "Zug" in this context means "draught" as well because a tractor ("Zugmaschine") is pulling a gun vehicle.   

However, if you read "Flakzug" then you know it is a military unit of (in WWI mostly 2) Fla guns! Confusing, I know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by K-Flak on Tuesday 20th of December 2011 05:53:45 PM



-- Edited by K-Flak on Tuesday 20th of December 2011 06:03:52 PM

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