Landships II

PDA · Legend

Liquid Green Stuff/Mr Surfacer

Lothianman · Colonel

I tend to use Revell putty (which however tends to settle out if stored for long and needs to be mixed) for filling.

If it's small and last minute gap filling you want, I tend to use a home made filler made from ordinary bathroom talcum powder and an appropriate colour of matt Humbrol enamel paint, usually from an old and dying tin. Excess can be wiped before it dries hard with a cotton bud moistened with enamel. This last trait is very useful if working near rivets etc. as it is a real pain cleaning solvent based filler from around them. This filler can be premixed by tipping in the powder bit by bit into the nearly empty tin till a nice in between gloopy and firm texture is achieved.

One can also use PVC emulsion (white glue) and cotton buds moistened wityh water/spit for little cracks - more convenient but not always so successful.

I save my Mr Surfacer (from little-cars.co.uk, I think) for cast effects on tank turrets and the like, though I have also had good effects with the aforesaid talcum and paint mix, especially for the really coarse texture on some cast turrets. Both need to be textured with a brush but Mr Surfacer dries quicker and is not so easy to work, whereas the paint/talc can ber worked and/or wiped off using brushes etc. dipped in enamel thinners. Mr S comes in different grades. I worry about the effect of painting large amounts of solvent on one side of the plastic over large flat areas causing warping, perhaps unnecessarily, so tend to leave such plastic solvent based products till they are really needed.

-- Edited by Lothianman on Friday 21st of September 2012 08:37:39 AM

PDA · Legend

Thanks, Lothianman. Yes, filling in tiny cracks between two lines of rivets is so much fun! And there's always rivets on WW1 models (or there should be!).

Do you apply your Mr Surfacer with a brush, or is the brush used just for texturing?

EDIT: just had a thought. Have you ever used Mr Surfacer/Liquid Green Stuff to paint rivets on? I might try that; see if I can make little tiny spots that look like rivets when they're painted.

-- Edited by PDA on Friday 21st of September 2012 04:22:29 PM

Lothianman · Colonel

I used a brush for application and texturing (or, for the latter�when nearly dry, a screwdriver, or a tool handle, or scriber,�or whatever seems to work for the effect needed ...) - but it's bad for them even if one rinses with liquid cement, which is another reason I tend to save Mr S for when other things won't do. As are the solvent content and cost/finding the stuff.

Rivets: I've seen them done with drops of white glue. Usually in the more heroic articles in Military Modelling issues of the 1970s. The consistency and spacing together make the killer problems, for me. Part of the problem is that the glue or (I imagine) Mr S dries on the brush in seconds so behaves differently with time. But do try it and see - if you can make it work I will be very impressed.

You can buy rivets in packs from e.g. Grandt Line (but have to clean off the median mould line - try SB Models e.g.). Or perhaps some of the resin kit makers provide them sans mould line. Or consider the different spacings (some more just added - and one can go both ways along the sheet, up and sideways, remember) of 3-D pre-printed rivets on transfer sheets from Archer Fine Transfers. I seem to recall that someone on this site uses them. Or if the spacings are not quite what you want, cut them out and apply them individually ... only joking unless for limited areas!

If I am chucking out an old kit because it has not come together, or for other reasons, i always save the bits with rivets and bolts on them and throw them in an old ice cream carton till I need some. But I have never had the courage to do an entire WW1 tank!

Mike

-- Edited by Lothianman on Friday 21st of September 2012 06:41:55 PM

mike_m · Major

I've used Mr Surfacer many times although not so much recently. I use a wooden cocktail stick to apply, it just dries on the brush too quickly, with the cocktail stick you can get it where you want it to go more easily. Leave it to dry and just give it a light sanding over and you should be fine. The main reason I stopped using it so much is the smell, I've moved to Vallejo model filler instead, it is a thicker consistency but you can paint it on using a brush and even then just wipe away the excess with another damp brush.

Mike

PDA · Legend

It's just dawned on me that Mr Surfacer is not water based - the smell and the difficult clean up. I don't have Mr Surfacer, I have Liquid Green Stuff by Citadel, and it is water based - brushes are easily cleaned.

I thought of using a cocktail stick, but even the small end of the cocktail stick looked large compared to the cracks I was trying to fill.

I wonder if there is anything that would get drawn along the crack by capillary action and then not shrink when it dries? Zap-A-Gap?

Lothianman: I have the Archer rivets but haven't used them yet. But I do have some Extratech, Second City, Airfix, and Reviresco kits so I think the Archer rivets will get used up pretty quickly! I made some rivets for the rear plates of the Mk IV that are missing from the Emhar kit I'm (slowly) building. I�took Hans's advice, and used thin plasticard and a pointy tool; I just pressed the tool into the plasticard to make a bump on the other side. It wasn't easy getting them to line up and be evenly spaced, but I had some practice sessions and it worked out in the end.

Lothianman · Colonel

Ah, that is interesting about the Citadel Liquid Green Stuff! Green Stuff is (also) the name for an organic solvent based putty from the US that comes in tubes and is smelly. So I'd assumed that the Citadel stuff was the same, only runnier, and repackaged for the Dungeons and Dragons/Warhammer mob. But maybe they are completely different, or the US makers have changed the formula of the original.

I will have a look next time I am passing the local wargamers' store as I might try Citadel GS myself. However, about using it for texturing surfaces: anything which is water based may or may not stick too well to smooth plastic especially if it's not clean, e.g. mucky with mould release agent, as is increasingly the case with Chinese produced kits - I always find myself giving them a good wash with Fairy Liquid as the first stage in assembly. No idea if Emhar tanks need baths but their Bedford lorries certainly did.

mike_m · Major

If it is water based, thin it down a little then trim off the end of the cocktail stick to a good sharp point and apply. You might need a couple of goes as it would think it will contract. I'm more used to filling gaps in 700 scale ships as on www.finewaterline.com so if this method works in that scale you should be fine.

Mike

PDA · Legend

1/700! I think 1/76 is small enough. Maybe 1/87.

It shrinks anyway, even without diluting. But I shall see if I can find occasion to experiment... smile

mike_m · Major

Let me know how you get on, the search for the perfect filler continues...

�

Mike

CrashandBern · Field Marshal

Hi PDA, I've used Mr.S too it's basically a very small (and expensive) bottle of cellulose filler primer, having worked in a body shop (automotive not the smelly soap variety) I'd know the smell of cellulose thinners anywhere! The different grades just depend on how much it's been thinned, I use 500 and 1000 grade mainly for texturing but also for small gap filling and I agree with Mike and Mike above you need to keep some thinners on hand otherwise it dries on the brush before you're done.
Cellulose thinners does attack styrene but so long as you don't plaster it on it evaporates away so quickly it's gassed out before it can actually damage the plastic.

I also make a fine filler paste by mixing up a small ball of Milliput and dissolving it in water using a stiff brush then applying with a fine paint brush... horses for courses any of the above should work fine too.

Bernie

PDA · Legend

CrashandBern wrote:
... I also make a fine filler paste by mixing up a small ball of Milliput and dissolving it in water using a stiff brush then applying with a fine paint brush... horses for courses any of the above should work fine too.

Bernie

�That actually sounds a lot like what I used to do/still do, and gets to the reason of why I thought I'd try Liquid Green Stuff.

I will often mix up a small amount of Milliput and then take a tiny amount (about the size of a granule of sugar) on a scalpel and push it into one end of a crack. Then I spit on my finger and smooth it along the crack. I'm way more dextrous with my finger than with a scalpel or brush, and the spit dilutes the Milliput so it moves along the crack. Where it gets snagged on rivets or some detail, I just use more spit and rub it off with my finger.

That method seems, well, unhygienic, so I thought I'd give the Liquid Green Stuff a go. So far my old method is getting better results.

I'd also recommend nobody handles any of my models smile

CrashandBern · Field Marshal

Yep a small ball of Milliput and a spitty finger are hard to beat... for hygiene's sake I suppose you could use a bowl of water instead?

Paul Bonnett · Hero

Have heard that correction fluid (tipp*x) can be used on very small/fine cracks. Never tried it myself but thought I would pass it on
Paul

Brash Timbers · Corporal

I just used some Mr. Surfacer 1000 for filling small gaps in a wing joint and along seam lines. Per a recommendation from a Nov. 2011 issue of FineScale Modeler, I used isopropyl alcohol on a q-tip (swab) to smooth the joint after the Mr. Surfacer was applied and had dried slightly (FineScale said an hour, but I waited 5 minutes and had good results). I actually went so far as to use the isopropyl for clean-up on the small brush I was using in-between applications and it seem to work quite well. I believe the "official" thinner for Mr. Surfacer is the Gunze Mr. Color Thinner. FineScale claims that you can airbrush Mr. Surface 1200/1000 using 30% Mr. Color Thinner.

As for a basic filler, I've been using 3M Bondo "Glazing & Spot Putty" (Item 907) which is available in the US at automotive supply stores. If used sparingly, this putty is easy to apply, dries quickly, and sands very easily. However, as it contains acetone and some other noxious chemicals, it will react with styrene if too much is used (as CrashandBern mentions above). However, this does have a nice bonding effect to the plastic and as it is automotive finish material, it doesn't seem to shrink. The staff at my local hobby store recommended this to me over the "Squadron" green and white putties that they sold, saying that the Squadron stuff tended to "ball up" and wouldn't stick well on styrene.